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 Post subject: I hate time changes!
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:22 pm 
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The history of the beast is sort of interesting even if it makes no sense. Most people blame the U.S. for the thing but it was actually first used in Thunder Bay, Canada in 1908. Germany and Austria were the first entire countries to use DST in 1916.

Here is a pretty quick brief. It is a pretty short read and may be of interest to some.
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/history.html

Spending all day grumbling about the time change! It's a tradition with me to grumble about it. ;) Does nothing but mess with pets, kill people (suicides rise a lot around time changes) and breaks bones when you fall off the step stool trying to reach the wall clock. Seriously it serves no purpose in today's world. :mad:

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 Post subject: Re: I hate time changes!
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:01 pm 
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Oh Jay, don't get me started on that one! LOL

Overview - Seasonal affective disorder (SAD)
https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/seasonal-affective-disorder-sad/overview/

This will seem unbelievable to many here, but i actually had a medic claim my Long Covid was due to SAD at one point.

I've never understood how you can 'save daylight', it's basically a nonsense, do governments reach out and move the sun??

I'm old enough to remember Double DST in the UK, that was even more of a farce than DST was... walking too school in hi-viz jackets because it reduced accidents in the evening... but accidents rose in the morning... millions of years of evolution and human understanding but politicians know better.


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 Post subject: Re: I hate time changes!
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:12 pm 
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Doddie wrote:
Oh Jay, don't get me started on that one! LOL

Overview - Seasonal affective disorder (SAD)
https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/seasonal-affective-disorder-sad/overview/

This will seem unbelievable to many here, but i actually had a medic claim my Long Covid was due to SAD at one point.

I've never understood how you can 'save daylight', it's basically a nonsense, do governments reach out and move the sun??

I'm old enough to remember Double DST in the UK, that was even more of a farce than DST was... walking too school in hi-viz jackets because it reduced accidents in the evening... but accidents rose in the morning... millions of years of evolution and human understanding but politicians know better.

One thing with DST in the U.S. that really makes me wonder about the belief that it was to help farmers is that it is dictated by the Department Of Transportation. :dunno: Actually, in the U.S. DST is not really a Federal mandate as it was decided on a state by state decision. The only real Federal rule on it is that if a state adopts the thing it must do so under the dictates of the Department Of Transportation.

Another really odd thing with DST is that, while it is not a Federal mandate, once a state adopts the thing, it takes something like a 75% approval of other states to get rid of it. Personally I think this is due to the thing being dictated by the Department Of Transportation. Think about it. It would complicate paper work as to shipping and delivery times. :dunno:

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 Post subject: Re: I hate time changes!
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:32 pm 
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Yes indeed -- the twice yearly time change is stupid. The problem is that getting rid of it is complicated. If we go to permanent Standard time, people will complain about the evening hours not staying light late enough in the summer. If we go permanent DST, people will complain that it is dark later in the Winter morning. I don't care which way it goes, just get rid of the twice yearly change of clocks which is entirely too disruptive.

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 Post subject: Re: I hate time changes!
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:40 pm 
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sboots wrote:
Yes indeed -- the twice yearly time change is stupid. The problem is that getting rid of it is complicated. If we go to permanent Standard time, people will complain about the evening hours not staying light late enough in the summer. If we go permanent DST, people will complain that it is dark later in the Winter morning. I don't care which way it goes, just get rid of the twice yearly change of clocks which is entirely too disruptive.

Just change the time by half an hour to compromise and forget about it. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: I hate time changes!
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:20 am 
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jaylach wrote:
Just change the time by half an hour to compromise and forget about it. ;)

If it were only that easy. :-P

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 Post subject: Re: I hate time changes!
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:25 am 
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sboots wrote:
jaylach wrote:
Just change the time by half an hour to compromise and forget about it. ;)

If it were only that easy. :-P

In essence it just that easy but the process to get rid of it is so convoluted to make it almost impossible. I truly believe that it is about money and interstate shipping. That may sound off the wall but the thing IS controlled by the Department of Transportation. Just think about how much money would be involved in interstate shipping companies having to redo their systems as to change from the current system to a new system that didn't include automatic adjustments for time changes.

And why did it start? The first two countries to adopt the beast were Germany and Austria in 1916. Now let's see... 1916... right in the middle of World War 1. People believe time changes were initiated to help farmers but, with Germany and Austria being the first two countries to use it in the middle of WW1, does it not make more sense that it was done to fit timing for line of site artillery fire? I'm not saying that this was the actual reason. I'm just saying that it makes more sense than helping farmers.

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 Post subject: Re: I hate time changes!
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:25 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
In essence it just that easy but the process to get rid of it is so convoluted to make it almost impossible. I truly believe that it is about money and interstate shipping. That may sound off the wall but the thing IS controlled by the Department of Transportation. Just think about how much money would be involved in interstate shipping companies having to redo their systems as to change from the current system to a new system that didn't include automatic adjustments for time changes.

And why did it start? The first two countries to adopt the beast were Germany and Austria in 1916. Now let's see... 1916... right in the middle of World War 1. People believe time changes were initiated to help farmers but, with Germany and Austria being the first two countries to use it in the middle of WW1, does it not make more sense that it was done to fit timing for line of site artillery fire? I'm not saying that this was the actual reason. I'm just saying that it makes more sense than helping farmers.

I've had a closer look at the timeanddate website you posted earlier and i found a very interesting page on there that might help clear up some of this discussion...

Time Zone History of the United Kingdom
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/uk/time-zone-background.html

Some quotes from that page that might help explain a lot are:
Quote:
The United Kingdom started using Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) as its standard time in 1880. It remained the base of civil time in the world until 1972.
The United Kingdom was among the first countries to use a standard time for the whole country, replacing the practice of each place keeping its own local mean time.


@Jay You might find this interesting in that it might help explain why the Department of Transportation has control of DST in the US, it makes sense to me that it would have back in the 19th/early 20th century but i'm not American so can't say for sure.

Quote:
“Railway Time”

With the introduction of the railway, travel became faster. With every station keeping its own local mean time, the need for a synchronized time arose.

The first railway company to implement a common time for all stations, appropriately named “Railway Time,” was the Great Western Railway in November 1840. By 1847, most railways were using “London Time,” the time set at the Royal Observatory in Greenwich.

In 1847, the Railway Clearing House, an industry standards body, recommended that Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) be adopted at all stations as soon as the General Post Office permitted it. On December 1, 1847, the London and North Western Railway, as well as the Caledonian Railway, adopted “London Time,” and by 1848 most railways had followed.


Quote:
Wartime Energy Saver

In 1916, during World War I, Germany was the 1st country in the world to use DST nationwide, and the UK followed just weeks later. To save energy and help the war effort, the Summer Time Act 1916 advanced the clocks in the UK for 1 hour from May 21 until October 1 in the same year.

Summer time, or DST, proved so popular that it was named British Summer Time (BST) and the seasonal practice kept.


This one corrects me, it wasn't 'Double DST' i experienced, it was a 3 year trial to stay on DST. I was only 4 in 1968 and 7 in 1971 but i can remember it like yesterday... when i was in school, daylight during that time didn't happen here during January until around 10am, 11am if it was cloudy and snowing... the school day started at 0845... i simply couldn't wake up and take in anything i was being taught until it was daylight.
Quote:
3 Years of Summer Time

In a trial known as the British Standard Time experiment, the UK kept Daylight Saving Time hours permanently from February 1968 to November 1971. Although the experiment resulted in fewer traffic incidents because darkness fell 1 hour later on the clock, it was found that there was a slight increase in incidents in the darker morning hours. The experiment was abandoned in 1972 because of its unpopularity—particularly in the north of the country, where days are generally shorter.


An interesting website, thank you.


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