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 Post subject: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:28 pm 
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Sigh, my desktop is dead. Now have my laptop connected to my HDTV. It happened on the first re-boot after installing the two games involved in the following thread.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1200&p=11961#p11961
Diablo II and Diablo III.

I put this here instead of the Windows 7 forums as I THINK it most likely to be a hardware issue. I really doubt that the game installs are the cause as they are both totally legit, store bought products.

History:
Installed the first game, Diablo II without issue except that the graphics were messed up. Checked the Blizzard site for cures and it was suggested that the game be run as an Admin with compatibility set to XP SP2. It was also recommended to run a video test contained within the program directory. The test recommended switching the game from Direct Play 2D to 3D which I did. I then installed an included expansion pack for the game without issue. At this point all was good and I went to their support site and installed available updates and patches. Everything was still good. I probably should have but did not restart.

I then installed Diablo III and allowed it to update... about 9GB of downloads. After all this I had about 33GB free space on a 150GB partition OS partition, space should not be an issue.

I now re-booted with failure.

Symptoms:
The system powers up but goes nowhere. There is not even a post screen. There IS an oddity. With or without an optical disk inserted the optical drive busy light keeps flashing forever. About every 10 seconds the hard drive busy light will briefly flash. The connected HDTV displays no signal.

What I intend to do:
I would LOVE to just restore last week's system image but can't... Hmmm, mayhaps I can. I have not yet tried booting to a system recovery CD, doubt that it would work as I am not getting any post screen.

1) Connect the desktop's SSD to the laptop via a USB dock to see it is readable.
2) If the SSD is readable restore an image by pulling the laptop's main drive and plugging in the SSD. Then I would restore last week's image. Put the drive back in the desktop to see what happens.
3) Try one RAM stick at a time.
4) Sigh, try to figure out if it is a mother board or video card issue.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:06 pm 
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Disconnect the optical drive from power and the IDE/SATA cable (whichever it is, in your case). See if you can get it to Post.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:11 pm 
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I have already removed the data cable from the SATA Blu-ray optical drive without success. However I did not remove the power cable. I will try that but probably not tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:25 pm 
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A long time ago I had a bad CD drive and the PC would not boot -- same situation you are describing. Completely removing the drive from the system, power and data, was the solution. If that ends up not being your solution, I'd approach it by removing all non-essential hardware and trying to boot. If it boots, then start adding hardware back one bit at a time. The other thing that can cause what you are seeing is a failed power supply -- it isn't providing enough juice to get the machine started, but just enough to get the power up sequence started.
-steve

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:06 am 
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Sigh, I also may need to find a VGA cable. The motherboard does have a VGA out and the HDTV has an in. This could help to prove if or not it may be a blown video card. There was a change in the video setup during the game installs from DirectX Direct Play 2D to 3D. I would think that this would only affect the game graphics but who knows...

LOL! I actually sort of hope it is a video card issue as I've ben wanting to get a beter one but have not been able to justify. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:31 pm 
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Well I reset the CMOS by pulling the battery.
Tried one RAM stick at a time.
Re-seated the video card.
Tested all drives on my laptop, all good.
Re-connected only the OS drive.

Same result, no post screen, just a no signal message on the HDTV. I figure either the motherboard, video card or power supply.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:39 pm 
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Never mind... The system is up and running just fine as can be. :dunno:

There were three devices that I had not unplugged.
Ethernet cable
USB to my printer
The computer itself

I removed the printer and Ethernet and then unplugged the whole thing from the wall outlet. Still left it with just the OS drive. It booted right up. Shut down and re-connected the other two drives. Booted normal. Re-connected the Ethernet, printer and the USB TV tuner. Re-booted all good.

I'm going to hazard a guess and say that it may well have been the combination of unplugging from the wall and removing the CMOS battery. The battery was still out when I unplugged from the wall. While unplugged I also hit the power button to discharge the capacitors.

Crud! I have to pull the cover back off. I forgot to re-connect the Blu-ray burner... I shall return.

<edit>
Still boots fine with the optical connected and the optical works fine.
</edit>

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:01 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:40 pm 
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I understand Steve. Still, especially when dealing with hardware, I want to understand the cause/effect.

In this case I actually think that I may achieve the above.

Until I unplugged the danged thing from the wall outlet it was never 'totally' without power.

With the combination of removing total power and removing the CMOS battery the system was basically reset to factory as to hardware. I believe that this was the cure.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:56 am 
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Likely only required unplugging from the wall. I have seen this - even when computers were plugged into power strips, it required unplugging the power strip from the wall. Figure that one out! LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:12 am 
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Don't most computer have an on off switch on the power supply which should be the same as unplugging?


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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:18 am 
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Glad to see you got it sorted out Jay, as Steve said life is certainly an adventure when it comes to computers. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:34 pm 
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Not anymore Peter. I mean the switch may be there, but it doesn't necessarily remove all power from the machine. What stuns me though, was the need not just to turn off the surge protector, but to unplug it for some small amount of time. It almost seems that hardware "hangs" in its own way, and that removal from the wall - or total removal from any source of electricity - resets it, like rebooting the computer resets the OS and software (and reinitializes drivers). Understand that this was anecdotal, and I have no real explanation, only conjecture.

Now one thing that people often don't remember to do with laptops is remove the battery as part of a reset process.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:52 pm 
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While the system in question does have a switch on the power supply I have always been in the habit of just unplugging.

Another thing that people forget is to hit the system's power switch a few times while unplugged to discharge the capacitors which are sort of like little batteries. Try it some time... Unplug a system from the wall and hit the power button. The power light will come on and the fans will start to spin up. This is due to the charge still maintained by the capacitors.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:25 am 
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You told me about that some time ago, and I've been cognizant of it ever since!

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:12 pm 
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Just curious and throwing this out there, didn't you get a BIOS beep code?

You'd need a speaker for that of course, but assuming your motherboard has the function to attach one I'd have thought the BIOS would've alerted you to a possible cause... unless of course the BIOS chip was the problem itself, e.g. 'chip creep'?


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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:53 pm 
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I never mounted the motherboard speaker. To be honest one didn't come with the board or I probably would have done so.

The following is just 'side talk'. You all know how long winded I can get... This is just informational and/or procedural. Don't bother reading unless you have an interest in ways to upgrade a system as to hardware. It is a rather long 'dissertation'. ;)

Actually I'm 'almost' sad that it is up and running. I was sort of hoping to be 'forced' in to upgrading a bit. It is an older motherboard that is only running SATA2. I would not have minded going up to SATA3 even if I really don't need it. With an SSD for the OS drive it is still quite quick.

It has always sort of been my mode of operation setting up an entire new system to go a bit overboard on the case and power supply as to both size and quality. As to the case I look for sturdy and reports of good airflow. I also want to be able to remove the motherboard without removing drives. As to the power supply I prefer modular even though my current is not. The main thing is that it has at least twice the wattage that I actually need. The wattage serves two purposes. First is for possible future system upgrades. Second is that I think the power supply works much less hard if it is overblown as to what the system needs. In this case remember that the system is an entertainment center, I want quiet. Very seldom does the power supply fan kick in.

So why, other than noise, do I insist on a sturdy case and overblown power supply? Sigh, ever buy a cheap case that hums or rattles? I did once and went nuts hunting down the problem areas and curing, never again.

1) I now have a case that is really sweet. The airflow is awesome with a HUGE exhaust fan in the back. Also there is plenty of room between the back of the drive bays and the front of the motherboard.

2) I have a power supply that will most likely handle anything I will ever do or need during its lifetime.

So why are 1) and 2) important to me?

Say that the issue concerning this thread HAD been the motherboard. I don't even have to pull the power supply or drives to replace the motherboard. If I don't mind moving a few wires around I don't even have to remove the cables from the drives.

Also I am covered as to 'moving forward'. People that have known me here for a long time know that I am usually in a constant state of upgrading my system. Yes, while they DO change, the longest useable components of a system are the case and power supply. Both being of good quality can greatly increase the life of a system and both being more than really needed can greatly decrease the cost of upgrading a system.

The way that I tend to upgrade is to keep the case, power supply, drives and video card. I replace just the motherboard, CPU, cooler and RAM. Once my wallet cools off I might replace the video card. One of the reasons that I love Windows 7 is that just connecting the drives to the new motherboard, even if a different manufacturer, will usually result in a system that will still boot. I don't know if this is also true with Windows 8.1 and 10 but imagine that it probably is. I throw in the new components and turn the danged thing on. Video is usually fine as I'm using the same video card. I may or may not have internet connection. If so I don't bother installing the drivers on the CD that came with the motherboard, I go to the manufacturer's site and get the most current right from the start. If I don't have internet I use the included CD to install the NIC drivers and then go get the most recent drivers for everything else.

Sorry, just rambling and 'possibly' giving someone something to think about. LOL! All this typing served at least ONE purpose... I pulled a muscle in my upper left thigh and all this typing took my mind off of it for a bit. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:34 pm 
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Ugh... I get Charlie-horses there sometimes. Awful. :(

Try wet heat. Like a steaming towel. Or dry heat if you have a heating pad. Wet is better though.

You know what is really good? Those warm patches you can get at, Walgreens and other grocery stores. I don't like the menthol ones, and capsaicin can be a bit much too. The ones I like best are by Well Patch. They're around 3x4, maybe 5. Slap one on and it lasts at least 8 hours. They have two kinds, one which is pretty menthol-y, but they tend to feel cold. They other is a warm patch, it does contain some menthol, but the overall feeling is warm, not cold.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:45 pm 
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Thanks Patty, I'll keep those products in mind for the future. As is the leg is almost better. I actually pulled it last Thursday, I think. Was just slight but got worse. I've kept it in a wrap the last few days at work and it is much better now. I don't wrap at home as I believe that any wrap that is tight enough to help support also restricts blood flow which, obviously, is needed for healing.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigh, a dead desktop
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:09 pm 
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I'd keep an emergency box on hand, Jay. I've found that once it has happened once, it will take less to bring it on again. I don't like wrapping either.

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