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jaylach
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 Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:03 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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The difference between having the boot manager first or the optical first is really a matter of choice. You should be able to boot to optical in either case on either system. If you have the optical drive listed first you will see the option automatically on the screen saying to 'hit any key to boot from CD/DVD' or there-a-bouts. If you have the boot manager listed first you will not get that automatic option but will have to hit the appropriate 'F' key to bring up the boot option menu to select the device. It seems to really be a matter of preference. My preference is to have the optical drive first but a lot of that is just habit. Since it is apparent that Velocity support does know what they are doing it is probably best to take their advice. Even if I were to be forced to have the boot manager first what real difference does it make? So I have to hit an extra key to boot from CD/DVD... How often do we really do that? 
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bbarry
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:38 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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jaylach wrote: The difference between having the boot manager first or the optical first is really a matter of choice. You should be able to boot to optical in either case on either system. If you have the optical drive listed first you will see the option automatically on the screen saying to 'hit any key to boot from CD/DVD' or there-a-bouts. If you have the boot manager listed first you will not get that automatic option but will have to hit the appropriate 'F' key to bring up the boot option menu to select the device. It seems to really be a matter of preference. My preference is to have the optical drive first but a lot of that is just habit. Since it is apparent that Velocity support does know what they are doing it is probably best to take their advice. Even if I were to be forced to have the boot manager first what real difference does it make? So I have to hit an extra key to boot from CD/DVD... How often do we really do that? I know this is a rather old thread, but I've spent considerable time lately playing the boot order game, pressing the F? key, and talking with the Velocity Support Tech. I was really having trouble getting my arms around this new UEFI BIOS. The Tech finally emailed me a PDF copy of the User Guide for my ASUS Z-170 Motherboard w/UEFI BIOS......I'm still wading through it. But here is what I have determined works for me with my configuration (and the Tech agrees that this is the correct approach): - My boot order is (1) Windows Boot Manager (2) Optical Drive (i.e., CD/DVD Player) (3) Internal SATA HDD - With a bootable disc in the optical drive, I must still press F8 during boot up to arrive at the menu of boot options, where I can then choose my optical drive; the bootable discs with which I have had success include the OEM Win 7 Pro Install Disc, the Windows Repair Disk, and the Acronis 2016 Bootable Rescue Media. - With a bootable disc in the optical drive, if I don't press F8 during boot up, my computer will freeze at the Velocity splash screen and my keyboard and mouse are dead. To unfreeze, I first try unplugging the computer from the electrical outlet....that sometimes works. If unplugging it doesn't work, then on advice from the Velocity Tech, I must disengage some of my USB devices from the computer, especially the external drives (that job is simplified by the fact that my external drives are plugged into the same surge protector, so I just throw a switch). Once I boot into Windows, I can plug the USB devices back in and they are immediately recognized. - Without a bootable disc in the optical drive, I don't have to press any key to boot directly into Windows; if I want to enter the UEFI BIOS, I must press F2 during boot up. @Smitty - I know your motherboard w/UEFI BIOS is different than mine, so my exact steps may or may not work for you. But I think the Velocity Tech told you about the same thing, except I think you use F12 rather than F8 to get to the boot option menu.
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jaylach
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:46 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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As long as it works for you all is OK but if it were myself I would not accept the fact that the system will crash if there is boot media in the optical drive and I do not select the boot menu. This should not happen and something is wrong. Of course it is also possible that the full UEFI 'BIOS' is just terrible...
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bbarry
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:27 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
Posts: 2406
Location: North Central Arkansas
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jaylach wrote: As long as it works for you all is OK but if it were myself I would not accept the fact that the system will crash if there is boot media in the optical drive and I do not select the boot menu. This should not happen and something is wrong. Of course it is also possible that the full UEFI 'BIOS' is just terrible... Ah ha........there is the rub. IMHO the UEFI BIOS is terrible, if for no other reason it is often illogical (and/or it's logic often escapes me). There are several flags associated with the boot process. Some of them you set to "UEFI only", others you set to "UEFI and Legacy". And knowing when to do which is difficult.....even the Techs don't always agree. When I first got the computer, all these flags were set to "UEFI only", and the optical drive did not even appear in the boot option menu. Not sure how Asus/Intel ever expected someone to do a system recovery. I guess I'm just an old 'legacy' guy at heart.....most of that I understood. 
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MacDuffie
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:56 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:42 am
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You and me both, BB. UEFI totally escapes me.  I once did a search on it and marked several articles to read - never got around to them. LOL It was like I had no reference point to even start from!
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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator
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jaylach
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:20 pm |
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| Resident Geekazoid Administrator |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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MacDuffie wrote: You and me both, BB. UEFI totally escapes me. I once did a search on it and marked several articles to read - never got around to them. LOL It was like I had no reference point to even start from! LOL! You know how much I tend to torture myself Patty... My next system upgrade will probably be to replace my SATA 2 based mother board with a SATA 3 with a UEFI based BIOS. Even though my BIOS is a hybrid between 'old school' and UEFI my drive control is UEFI. I had to play a bit with the possible settings but really did not have a lot of issue with the drive control.
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bbarry
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:00 am |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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Location: North Central Arkansas
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MacDuffie wrote: You and me both, BB. UEFI totally escapes me. I once did a search on it and marked several articles to read - never got around to them. LOL It was like I had no reference point to even start from! Patty, the Velocity Tech emailed me a PDF copy of the UEFI BIOS User Guide for my ASUS Z-170P motherboard. Unfortunately, it's written in Latin, lol. Just kidding, and I will be glad to send you a copy if you want.....just let me know.
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Peter2150
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:26 am |
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:52 pm
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Just remember it will be unique to that mother board.
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MacDuffie
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:52 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:42 am
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BB, I would love a copy. Understood, Pete, but it is a start! Just to be clear, I am not against UEFI - it is what allows Secure Boot. It is what allows the Trusted Platform Module, the on-motherboard chip that stores your biometrics so that they are not transmitted over any network but remain on your local machine. Lots of good stuff. This will eventually replace passwords completely, a move that can't come too soon in my opinion. I'm sure I'm being too simplistic about this - but a few concepts have soaked in.
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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator
Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock
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Peter2150
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:06 pm |
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Okay, so explain to this dummy what secure boot is.
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bbarry
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:58 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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Location: North Central Arkansas
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Peter2150 wrote: Okay, so explain to this dummy what secure boot is. Pete, it's when my motorcycle boots zip all the way to the top and , therefore, remain securely on my feet. It's what us Harley riders call a 'secure boot'. And you thought I didn't know about that stuff. 
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Peter2150
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:47 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:52 pm
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Got it. So you don't know either 
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jaylach
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:58 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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It is a part of the boot process that checks to make sure that all startup software is 'trusted'. In simple terms sort of like a certificate on a web site.
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jaylach
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:35 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
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bbarry wrote: Peter2150 wrote: Okay, so explain to this dummy what secure boot is. Pete, it's when my motorcycle boots zip all the way to the top and , therefore, remain securely on my feet. It's what us Harley riders call a 'secure boot'. And you thought I didn't know about that stuff. LOL! I guess this means that we can't talk anymore... I rode Hondas...
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MacDuffie
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:10 am |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:42 am
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My understanding is that it prevents things like BIOS (or rather UEFI) code being altered or boot-time rootkits from running. I do know that secure boot is dependent on UEFI. Here's the TechNet overview: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/lib ... 24987.aspx
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Patty MacDuffie
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Mr. Spock
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Acadia
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:29 pm |
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Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:45 am
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jaylach wrote: LOL! I guess this means that we can't talk anymore... I rode Hondas... Heh, I only rode a Vespa, remember them? Acadia
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jaylach
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:35 pm |
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| Resident Geekazoid Administrator |
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9455
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
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Yep, I remember the Vespa.
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bbarry
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:42 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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Location: North Central Arkansas
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bbarry
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:14 am |
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 am
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Location: North Central Arkansas
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Peter2150 wrote: MacDuffie wrote: One thing I have found, BB, is that some Optical drives don't like certain brand of media, or you may have a bad bunch. That's why I always go with a top brand like Philips or Sony or Verbatim. No cheapo Office Depot or Memorex. That's just one more possibility. Hmm. Never used Office Depot, but I've been using Memorex CD's, DVD's for over 5 years. Not one single failure. But I use their best. Sharing my recent experience.......when I was trying to create an Acronis WinPE-based recovery media, I burned several discs that my system just would not recognize. It ignored the disc in my DVD player just as if it wasn't there. And I was using Verbatim discs, from two different spindles. Knowing that some optical drives don't like some discs, I decided to try a blank Memorex DVD disc. SUCCESS......I burned a new WinPE-based disc, put it in my player, and it was immediately recognized as a UEFI device. And I could boot from it. So now I have a nice 4-coaster set of used Verbatim discs. I was having a similar problem trying to create a bootable Acronis WinPE-based USB flash drive. As I held the unsuccessful flash drive in my hand and took a closer look at it, I noticed that it was an 8GB Verbatim USB 3.0 stick. So I thought......I wonder should I try another brand. I grabbed an old SanDisk Cruzer Glide and burned another WinPE stick. SUCCESS. I know other users like the Verbatim brand, and I myself recently bought a new spindle of 50 blank Verbatim DVDs and some USB 3.0 Verbatim flash drives. But my computer does not like that brand.....neither DVDs nor USB flash drives. Also, I was never able to create a Windows bootable flash drive using Rufus and another Verbatim stick. Now I am going to try again, using a different brand to see if that was my problem here also. Just sharing my experience...........
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Peter2150
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:27 am |
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Try doing the linux one first. It's actually just as good. ALso did you ever download and install the ADK kit. Without it there won't be making any WINPE recovery disk.
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bbarry
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:11 am |
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Peter2150 wrote: Try doing the linux one first. It's actually just as good. ALso did you ever download and install the ADK kit. Without it there won't be making any WINPE recovery disk. Yes, I did download/install ADK, and the required Acronis plug-in. Then I would burn disc after disc, but my computer just ignored them. I even used the snipping tool to capture the listing of folders/files on the disc I burned and sent this info to members of the Acronis forum. They said contents looked correct, so they didn't know why my system wouldn't recognize and boot from the disc. That's when I changed brands and successfully burned both a WinPE recovery disk and flash drive. Verbatim just did me in this time. 
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Peter2150
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:29 am |
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Good. It happens with disks sometimes.
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