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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:42 pm 
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For me this is an interesting question because over the last week i've started receiving emails in my @gmail inbox that are clearly meant for someone else.

Most notably booking confirmation details for hotel bookings in Wales, this wouldn't normally be a big issue but the emails contain the persons name, booking confirmation number and pin number, the dates where they will be staying, how long for, and the price they paid... i won't name the innocent company involved because this is isn't their issue, suffice to say i have been in touch with them and explained the information I'm receiving and they were as horrified as i am... they phoned the customer after i accepted being placed on hold and explained there must be an issue with the email address they supplied to them but the 'customer' was adamant the email address was correct! (Clearly not because I'm getting them, and by their own admission the customer admitted they hadn't had ANY emails... including the email containing the email address verification link.. of course they didn't, i have it!!)

After speaking to the customer the company agent came back to me and told me what the customer said, that she was adamant her email address was correct... she went on that in her opinion this was perhaps a new member of the online community and that no amount of trying to persuade her could convince her that she was perhaps mistaken.

The outcome was that there was there little that could be done until the customer realised her mistake, or more likely a family member or friend could enlighten her.
------------------------------------------------------------

That said, i wondered about this whole @gmail or @googlemail conundrum, could it be possible that those domains are serperate?

I wondered because the last time i followed anything to do with Google's email servers was a very very long time ago!
It was so long ago in fact that i didn't even realise Goggle had re-instated the @gmail.com address in the UK! lol

cf:
http://techcrunch.com/2010/05/03/gmail-uk/
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-diffe ... -addresses
[The latter has at least one reference to them defaulting to the same address, i don't know if that's true?]
--------------------------------------------------
Anyways, i fired off a test email from my @gmail account to the equivalent @googlemail account with instructions for them to double check their actual address, i expected it to bounce or appear in my @gmail inbox....

That neither have so far happened i hope the email has reached her and she reads it, but it has left me wondering if gmail and googlemail addresses ever did default to the same domain?

What i strongly suspect has happened has been a friend or family member has set up an account for her and they've referred to the googlemail account as a gmail account and the gmail part has stuck with her... not helped by i suspect the fact that Google openly advertise their mail service as Gmail?

In the meantime, she has good taste, and stays in some lovely places ;)


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:25 pm 
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Doddie, I don't use either but I found this explanation on the internet:
https://gmailgeek.com/facts/gmail-vs-go ... ained.html


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:48 pm 
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bbarry wrote:
Doddie, I don't use either but I found this explanation on the internet:
https://gmailgeek.com/facts/gmail-vs-go ... ained.html

Thanks BB, but it doesn't really help... in your link is a part headed "Every Gmail User has two Gmail Addresses"... therein lies my confusion....

If that were true then the test messages i sent from my xxx@gmail.com account to xxx@googlemail.com account they would have been delivered to my xxx@gmail.com account... but they haven't.

That said, it is yet another link that points to gmail and googlemail accounts at one time being connected, which begs the question if i have a gmail email addresss how is it possible for someone with a googlemail email address to register it and for me to be getting their emails?

Fyi, my gmail account is a throwaway account as far as I'm concerned but shouldn't detract form the fact I'm getting lots of highly confidential information about another.


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 Post Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Try sending your message from a different domain (perhaps an @outlook.com) address to see if you get it when addressed to @googlemail.com
Gmail may actually have filtered your view since both addresses resolved to the very same mailbox -- yours -- and the emails were exactly the same message addressed twice. Try sending a single email with your address in both the To and CC fields. Gmail may present only a single message to you in the inbox.
My suspicion is that the person is indeed using the wrong address -- yours.
I recently had an influx of mail at an @outlook alias I have that have never been given out. Some moron was using my alias address to sign up for all kinds of newsletters and sites. I received verification links which I didn't respond to and a slew of unwanted mail from senders who didn't verify, but went ahead and accepted the submitter's address at their word. It's happened to me in the past, too.

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 Post Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:18 pm 
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@Steve, i tried that yesterday but nothing ever appeared in my inbox, just fired off another test message and Thunderbird filtered it as 'junk'... filtering an email from an address already set up in the software is a new one on me, but likely not related.... add that not every test message i sent yesterday was ever seen again kind of leads to a potential issue with the Google/Gmail servers.

Whilst not sure what's going on or how it's happened I'm going to sit on this for a week or so to see if it sorts itself out, it's not like I'm being inundated with spam.... daily offers for a better holiday deal by a BOOKING company (hint) for someone else, and registration verifications isn't a big deal... would be a big deal for the other person if i was the wrong sort of person, gosh, the untold upgrades/downgrades i could bestow on her could be hilarious :twisted:


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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Thought I'd update this thread because things took a somewhat more serious turn... not for me but for the person who thinks they've registered my gmail address as their own...

For obvious reasons i will obfuscate all names and email addresses, abc@ will be me, xyz@ will be the third party.

On the 18th i got an email from Google alerting me that someone added my gmail address as their recovery email.

Quote:
Someone added Abc@gmail as their recovery email

xyz52@gmail wants your email address to be their recovery email.

If you don’t recognise this account, it’s likely that your email address was added in error. You can remove your email address from that account. Disconnect email. <-- this latter text was a link i could click on to go into my account and remove that primary account from mine, which i immediately did!

Interestingly at this point my gmail address was quoted as having the first letter capitalised... likely a major flag why this user thought they owned my registered email address with gmail.

Of more interest though was the alert from Google, it gave me the actual email address of the users primary account so i fired off the following email to the user...

Quote:
Hi xxxx,

It is me again, the registered owner of abc@gmail

I am assuming you are the same xxxx xxxxx who tried to register this email address with xxxxxxx.com

I got an email yesterday from Google that someone with your email address "xyz52@gmail" has tried to add abc@gmail as their recovery account to my gmail account.

I have disconnected your xyz52@gmail account from my account.

I am now thinking that you think because your spelling of xxxxxxxxx has a capital X rather than the lower case x i use that that will be different than mine... it isn't, Google treat lower and upper case spelling of the username in their email address as if they are the same.
It would be the same even if you used xxx.xxxxx@gmail, the only way you can have xxxxxxxxx in any form would be to change the spelling or add a number at the end, in the same you have with xxxxxxxxxx52.

I'm not sure where or how you managed to register "Abc@gmail" but it should not have been allowed... i will continue to get all and any email meant for you at that address until you stop using it... in the case of you using it as your recovery account had i not disconnected your xyz@gmail address from my account i could have potentially received all your recovery data and who knows what personal information of yours i might have been able to see.

I mean you no malice because i think either you or someone else has made a genuine mistake which is why i am alerting you to these issues as they arrive... if you don't believe me then at least ask someone professional you can trust who will be able to verify what i am saying.... your Internet Service Provider should be able to advise you if you can't talk to Google themselves.

I don't obviously don't know who, nor do i want to know who your Internet Service Provider is but in the UK it would be someone like Virgin Media/BT/Sky/TalkTalk etc.

Regards,


Since i sent that I'm still getting daily offers from xxxxxxx.com, if they don't stop soon i'll be left with no option other than to request a password reminder when i try to log into this persons account... I'm not in the slightest interested in what this person does or doesn't do but now i know they're primary email address i can log in as them and change my email address to their primary one and save it as their default so i stop receiving notifications.
(Fwiw, I always had the option to log in as them via an email password reminder and reset any and all email addresses but i know they have an upcoming holiday booked and I'd rather not mess with that if i can help it.... now i know they're primary email address i can change it to that and they will finally get all the info I'm getting)

This person cannot say they have not been warned, I've bent over backwards to try and alert them, as have the holiday booking firm who also phoned this person and tried to tell them they MUST be using wrong email address :cry:


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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:49 pm 
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My, oh my. They are quite fortunate that you have no nefarious intent.
I am fairly certain that they never successfully registered your mail user name as googlemail or gmail.
-steve

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:57 pm 
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sboots wrote:
My, oh my. They are quite fortunate that you have no nefarious intent.
I am fairly certain that they never successfully registered your mail user name as googlemail or gmail.
-steve

But Steve, if not, why would Doddie be getting this person's notices? Heck, I'll leave the question but think the answer just hit me. Doddie is getting the notices due to this other person using the email address as contact info on such as the vacation schedule site.

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 Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:28 am 
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jaylach wrote:
sboots wrote:
My, oh my. They are quite fortunate that you have no nefarious intent.
I am fairly certain that they never successfully registered your mail user name as googlemail or gmail.
-steve

But Steve, if not, why would Doddie be getting this person's notices? Heck, I'll leave the question but think the answer just hit me. Doddie is getting the notices due to this other person using the email address as contact info on such as the vacation schedule site.

I may have misunderstood "registered" -- I mean that the other person was able to create the email.
If xxxx@gmail.com already exists, then one should not be able to create/register xxxx@googlemail.com, and vice versa, since the thought is that both domains resolve to the same mail environment.
-steve

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Re my original question about are gmail.com and googlemail.com accounts the same I found the following, it expands on what is and what isn't considered the same account, for example:

Note: It is from a blog, i am unsure whether this an official Google Blog, nor can i find out if the author "Brett K. Carver" works for, or has worked for, Google. That said, 'Googling' the author suggests he knows his stuff so the information should/could(?) be relieable.

Quote:
Question: What's the different between the following Gmail account names?

•first.last@gmail.com
•firstlast@gmail.com
•First.Last@gmail.com
•firstlast@googlemail.com
Answer: Nothing. While the syntax is different, they each represent the same unique e-mail account owned by a specific individual.

There are several differences allowed in the format of a Gmail address that do not actually represent a different account. This means that an e-mail address can contain any of these syntax differences and it still represents the same unique account.

Gmail ignores dots (periods, full-stops, ".")

Gmail does not treat dots in a GMail address as significant. That is, first.last@gmail.com is the same address as firstlast@gmail.com or any other combination like f.i.r.s.t.l.a.s.t@gmail.com. Gmail simply allows users to enter a dot as a convenient word separator, like you add dashes or dots when writing your phone number. And since Gmail does not allow the creation of duplicate addresses, it's physically impossible for both first.last@gmail.com and firstlast@gmail.com to exist as unique accounts. Once one form of the address has been created, all other forms will be rejected as a duplicate (the account already exists).

This has always been true since Gmail first was introduced in 2004.

http://gmail-tips.blogspot.co.uk/2014/0 ... email.html

While the above was penned in 2014 I'm pretty sure nothing has changed... I've searched high and low on everything Google to try and find something to suggest that it has but i found nothing... the only thing i haven't done is contact Google directly because for some reason Google have hidden their contact information in some place tighter than a gnats ass... shame they can't do that with their end user information! ;)

As for any confusion about this person having "registered" my email address, or a variant of it, i suspect both Jay and Steve are correct.

Steve is correct in that it shouldn't be possible and probably hasn't happened, Jay is correct in that this person is using my email address (or a variant) as contact information.

Expanding on why Steve is correct, i'll now name the travel company as Booking.com, i wasn't sure where this thread would go so i withheld it (but hinted)... they have done nothing wrong and are innocent bystanders in this because when i first got emails about this persons impending holiday i contacted them to ask why i was getting them... they immediately flagged it as a major security issue and escalated me to another department where i was put through what at times felt like the Spanish inquisition but when i told them i had held an account with them for years and was able to answer the usual security questions to verify i was the account holder and legitimate registered owner of the email address they calmed down (i know it wasn't a variant because i phonetically spelt it out to the agent and she confirmed this person was using the exact same address)... they contacted the person via their registered mobile phone number and they were absolutely adamant the address they gave was correct, nothing booking.com said would convince this person, even the suggestion that they should change the registered email address to another because someone else was getting their emails and confidential information, including account verification emails... along with potential access to their account would convince them to change it.
This user was utterly convinced that they were using an email address they had set up with Gmail.
(I still get daily emails for offers in their name from Booking.com, they can't verify their email address because i get those as well every time they try to re-verify my email address :roll: )

Jay is also correct because this is exactly what's happening, the person is convinced they are using a correct 'backup?' email address for stuff when clearly they are not.
So far I've had the travel website above, the BBC, a request from Google to add my email address/account as a backup for their primary account all contacting me to verify my email address as theirs... the security implications of this persons misguided actions are almost beyond belief... when Booking.com spoke to the person they got the distinct impression they felt the person thought they were trying to scam them! :o
They also got the impression this was a new user who had only just gone online... if true, that opens a whole new arena for thought for another day... is the media hyping online threats to the point where newbies now don't believe they can make mistakes online and that anything that happens to them must be someone else's fault? I'd never thought of that before, but it is plausible.

Anyway, now i know this persons primary email address i had hoped they would have replied in some way, but so far nothing.... i'll wait until their holiday on booking.com has completed, email them again with one final warning detailing exactly what changes i'll make to their account(s) and what they should do to stop me having to access their accounts... if they heed the warning great, but if not i'll lock them out of their accounts and shut them down myself.


Last edited by Doddie on Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Forgot to add that, at the beginning of this thread, none of the above explains why when i sent an email to myself from @gmail.com (or another pop3 provider) to @googlemail.com i still haven't seen anything, no inbox or bounced email... very odd.

I do now when i try again, but at the start of this thread those emails vaporised into the ether.

Make of that what you will.


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Good summary, Doddie, and we are in agreement that the individual is apparently clueless as well as adamant that your address is theirs. :-)

As to the test emails that disappeared into the ether, I am going to suspect filtering by Google -- either spam or presentation of the emails. We'll probably never know...

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:02 pm 
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It'll be interesting to see what happens Steve, I've never messed with anyone's accounts ever but this is bordering on the sublime... I'm torn between ignoring this... i can't do that because I'm privvy to their personal information.

Or tampering with their accounts, again, something I've never done but feel i'm being backed into a corner where i have to do something because their inaction could potentially affect my security... their use of my email address could open a can of worms I'm as yet unaware of.

i.e. So far all the websites i know of who have alerted me to a potential email change/addition doesn't necessarily equate to all those effected :(


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:05 pm 
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I'm still getting garbage at my @outlook.com alias due to the moron signing up at a bunch of sketchy sites and services with my address instead of his... I had stemmed the tide for a while, but the message volume recently increased. I may need to abandon that alias.

-steve

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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Quick follow up:

Now that his vacation in Wales has ended I requested a password reset for the account, changed the password, logged in and turned off all email notifications.

I had hoped i would've been able to close the account but apparently it's not that simple with Booking.com... in fact i couldn't find a way to do that at all despite googling it!!

Fyi, it turns out this person i thought was a woman is actually a man, no offence to the much loved Jean here but i always assumed the male spelling of Jean, was Gene :o

Anyways, that's him fully locked out of his account and even if tries to register my email address again there he can't because it's already assigned to an existing account.

That, i presume, will be the end of the matter.

p.s. I checked and he had no pending bookings. He can't say he wasn't warned ;)


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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:43 pm 
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Doddie wrote:
Quick follow up:


Fyi, it turns out this person i thought was a woman is actually a man, no offence to the much loved Jean here but i always assumed the male spelling of Jean, was Gene :o


p.s. I checked and he had no pending bookings. He can't say he wasn't warned ;)

Were you referring to me here Doddie, if so I'm Joan not Jean. :D

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 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:09 pm 
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JoanA wrote:
Were you referring to me here Doddie, if so I'm Joan not Jean. :D


Oops! :rofl2: :oops:


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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:07 am 
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Doddie wrote:
That, i presume, will be the end of the matter.


Fingers crossed for you. Good job!

The last moron that used my email alias to sign up for things had me changing passwords and closing accounts pretty much immediately.

-steve

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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:07 am 
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I couldn't help think about this thread when I saw this today: The dots do matter: how to scam a Gmail user.

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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:45 am 
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Very interesting read thanks Corrine, don't use my Gmail account much it's mainly just newsletters I set it to get, nothing to do with money is associated with the account.

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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Corrine wrote:
I couldn't help think about this thread when I saw this today: The dots do matter: how to scam a Gmail user.

An interesting read Corrine, however, in my case this could not have been an attempt to scam me... if anything i could have scammed the 3rd party.

In my case, the 3rd party genuinely believed they had a legitimate email address that was identical to mine... i confirmed this with booking.com by phonetically spelling my gmail address, and they did the same with the 3rd party.

The person was able to register my gmail address with booking.com because I'd never registered my gmail address with booking.com, my account with booking.com is with another email provider.

Anyways, i know they weren't trying to scam me because i could have, if i wanted to....

a: Upgrade, cancel, amend, change the dates of their then pending holiday at will.
b: Booked a holiday for myself that they would have been billed for.

I chose not to do any of that because fraud isn't in my nature, instead i waited until the persons vacation had ended, tried to log in with my gmail account, requested a password reset email, followed the link, changed the password, and disabled all notifications.

Put simply, i locked them out of ever using a gmail address "identical" to mine again on booking.com

Where the blame lies for that and how it happened i don't know, but because Google have a 'not so common' email alias system i don't believe you can blame on Google... in Jim Fisher's case, it should surely be up to providers such as Netflix (and booking.com) to validate ANY email address before ANY form of billing information is accepted.

In my specific case, booking.com accepted a booking with payment details on the basis they accepted the email address was genuinely held by the person opening the account... not unlike what Netflix apparently did to Jim Fisher.

On both counts this is wrong imho... until an email verification is sent AND VERIFIED then no account should be allowed.

It isn't/shouldn't be rocket science for an account to be opened with only an email address + username + password... website sends verification link to email address, user clicks link and enters username and password.

If the email is never received an account cannot be opened, even if an email is received by someone with 'an identical' email address, or a derivative of it, it will be impossible to access the account because the email and password used on account setup will be unknown.

No verification, no account, everyone is safe, or at least ought to be ;)


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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:32 pm 
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@ Doddie - I think you handled this situation very well. It is very obvious that fraud is not in your nature. Job well done... :tup:


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