A rant follows. Read if you wish but this article started the rant. I found it interesting.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/pixel-gala ... 2179861831

As many know I am a bit of an anomaly when it comes to technology. I have 2 desktop systems, a laptop and a tablet yet I refuse to carry a cell phone. Bottom line is that I just have no use for one. I DO own one that is about 4 years old and if I travel I put minutes on it in case of emergency. Other than that I have no use for the things. Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against cell phones except for the people that are totally rude when using.

Anyway, one thing that gets me about many cell phone users is the need to always the most current when the most current offers them nothing that they did not already have. And this is not just young people. A 70 year old woman at work told me today that she can't wait until 2017 to buy a new phone. She was going to buy one now but the rep told her that, if she waited until 2017, the GPS would be better. Of course it will also cost her more money. I could not convince her that the GPS would not be enough better to make any difference to her. Shoot, the GPS in, at least, last year's phones can track down to a physical address and I'm sure that has been the case for a while.

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Jay, I am also a bit of an anomaly. I own three Windows desktops, an iMac desktop, an iPhone 6, an iPad Air, and a flip-top LG cell phone. Some of this gear is new, some old, some very old (including the user).

But on all my desktops, I refuse to update my graphic card above/beyond what came in the computer. I just have no use for anything different.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

I couldn't wait to get the Lumia 950 XL. Main reason - it has an SD Card slot, which my Lumia Icon did not have. The Icon only had 32 GBs on device storage, so putting my music on it was a joke. I had to carry the phone and my Zune if I wanted all my music with me. The 950 XL takes the full new standard of SD cards - so while the current max is 200 GBs, the spec actually goes up to a terabyte, I believe. 200 works for me for now as my music collection is around 80 GBs. I only have to carry one device.

The text entry issue has been fixed, and Groove seems to be behaving itself, so I'm relatively happier. Of course the Bluetooth keeps disconnecting from my car unexpectedly. At this point, I don't know if the problem is the phone or the car. Sigh...

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

And this has exactly what as to the device being a phone and being able to run apps? Even if you had a 1 TB card in the thing it would still be possible to run out of storage.

Again I do not use a cell phone but still can't understand. This is a phone not an MP3 player. Yes! It CAN be an MP3 player but should that be the case? How many people have died due to someone searching their phone for the song they want to hear? I don't know the exact number but even one is too many.

How many people have died due to people texting? In the 'teen' age group it is over 3000 per year surpassing teen deaths due to drinking by ~300.
http://safety.trw.com/texting-while-dri ... aths/0710/

The way that these devices are allowed to be used make them a danger to other people and society as a whole. I am not one for censorship but strongly believe that being caught using a phone while driving should carry the same penalty as being caught driving drunk. How can one argue this point when more teens die due to texting than drunk driving?

Personally I STRONGLY believe that all new cars should be a cage that blocks all phone access if the car is in motion with the exception of a 911 call. Personally I would not even allow phone access (except 911) in a retail store or restaurant; especially a restaurant! Ever been in one and found it impossible to enjoy due to the one sided phone conversation at the next table?

Cell phones have destroyed courtesy within our society just as the automobile and television destroyed 'family'.

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Is it the cell phone or the rudeness of the people using them? Cell phones are not rude.
Acadia

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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

Of course it is the people. The phone is just the means.

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Jay, I'm a little confused, so please clarify. Do you like cell phones or not?

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

I have no personal use for one but it is not cell phones that I dislike. It is how too many people use the things.

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I was pretty much like you Jay until I put my flip phone through the washer. It didn't survive, of course! Being tired of my grandkids complaining that the flip phone couldn't do anything I replaced old faithful with a smart phone, specifically the LG G3. I must admit it's amazing. It just happens to be a computer that you carry around that can also do phone calls. I use it a lot to really just answer questions that pop up in my mind. I bet if you got one you would soon feel different.

As far as people's behavior, I totally agree. A lot of it is really off the charts. It's certainly ridiculous to see people around a table in a social situation on their phones. But you don't blame the tool for poor workmanship, do you? It's the perennial dilemma of the good outweighing the bad. I certainly don't want to get rid of cars because some people kill themselves with the tool.

So that's my point - you would feel different if you actually experienced it. Get a cheap one and see...

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Best regards,
Manny Carvalho
MS-MVP since 2002

I've probably stated this before, GG and I put off getting a smart phone as long as possible, getting our first just two years ago. We were about to do some real estate transactions and I did not want to miss any important calls while we were out hiking. With 4 real estate transactions in the past 15 months, that's FOUR, the darn thing proved invaluable.

And I had no idea of all the stuff that was on one of these things. A dead on accurate compass, might come in handy some day if we get lost on a hike. Of course a calculator, and a timer which I use all the time to remind me to turn off the hose when adding water to the Koi pond so it doesn't over flow; don't want to find fish swimming thru our yard. And I am probably only aware of 1/10th the stuff.

Warning if you get one, Jay, they are addictive.

Now, if only we could do something about the stupid idiots that text while they drive, almost enough to turn this moose violent.

Acadia

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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

I couldn't agree with you more Jay, in fact I'd take it a whole further, I'd ban the use of any and all electronic devices from cars... everything from radios to sat nav's... if radios and such like really are a must have for a 'family' then they should be positioned in places well away from and out of reach of the driver, e.g. in the rear seats only.

As an ex-motorcycle courier in the 90's who didn't have the luxury of 'hands-free' devices and sat-nav etc the mind boggles how anyone has complete control of anything on the roads anymore when they're constantly focused (consciously or otherwise) on an electronic device telling them where to go or what may or may not cause a delay ahead.. add in alerts or calls from a mobile device (hands-free or otherwise) and it's a recipe for disaster.

This will probably sound draconian but I personally don't even see the need for the driver of a car, or any other vehicle, to be doing anything other than having total focus for what is front of the vehicle or where the next turn is.

Personally, and most likely due to my past experience as a motorcycle courier when things like this weren't an option, i'd ban smoking, eating, drinking (non alcoholic as well), talking, and anything else that was going to distract a driver/rider.

I haven't ridden a bike now for about 4 years (through choice but that's another story for elsewhere) and now only drive cars... even though I smoke I won't smoke while driving because simply reaching for one and lighting one takes my eyes off the road for too long, I also I won't have music on in the car no matter who's in the car and won't talk to anyone in the car when I drive (if they don't like it they always have another option, walk).

If I'm not sure where I am or where I should be going i'll pull over in a side street and look at a map.

The time it takes to look at a map is so ridiculously small it has no bearing on the length of a long journey, it also gives you a break from the stresses of driving and to catch up on fluid and food intake... one day people will realise the past is the future.

As for courtesy and manners, the mind boggles why some people think it's socially acceptable to spend [say] 30 minutes of a 60 meal taking photos on a mobile phone instead of sitting down and engaging in conversation... that i'll NEVER understand no matter how young, or old, they are

On a more positive note, at least as far as the UK is concerned, from next year it looks like the penalties for using a mobile phone while driving are set to double.

The current automatic ban on the points system here is 12, so get caught twice as an 'experienced' driver and you're banned, get caught once as a 'new' driver and your banned and have to resit your test [meaningful policing will likely be an issue but I bet if they "DO" get caught the courts will come down hard]:

Texting drivers: Penalty points and fines to double:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37389800

IMHO, this subject is getting way out of hand. Jay, I wish you hadn't stated your rant. I don't believe it had/has any place on Computer Haven, especially in a Technical Forum. You are our technical guru, and that is your forte......not lecturing us on the ills of society.

And now we have to listen to Doddie do his ranting. I think both of you should go off line and rant to each other all you want. I don't belong and contribute to Computer Haven to listen to personal rants.

Just my two cents..........

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Wow
A rant against rants.

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To all current duty personnel and veterans
of the American armed forces.
Thank You

Sorry if I offended anyone as it was not my intent. Actually it started out just posting what I thought was an interesting article. Then I started looking at death statistics and probably went overboard. I DO believe it to be a serious situation but do not blame the phones. I blame the people that use them without responsibility.

Shoot, I do own one. I don't use it but I do own. If I am on the road such as when a while back I had to visit a different V.A facility that was a bit over a 600 mile round trip I put minutes on the thing and threw it in my glove box just in case.

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Jay
I found this very interesting. Nothing to worry about here

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To all current duty personnel and veterans
of the American armed forces.
Thank You

Bb, I totally agree. And thank you for saying so.

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

I hesitate to make this post but find that I must...

OK I opened a bad can of worms with my statements but I cannot accept that it has been expressed that I was wrong in presenting my opinion.

Let me ask a question. Except for two members the general response to my statements has been positive or neutral. Is it possible that the negative is due to my statements hitting home?

I KNOW that I should just drop out and let this fade away but I can't. It has been said that my statements do not belong here. If that is true then I do not belong here. I have done nothing but present a serious issue concerning mobile devices.

It has been stated that I was especially wrong in that I posted my 'rant' in a tech area... All my comments deal with mobile devices; where else would I post?

BB and Patty; don't you get it? Everything that I've said has every bit as much place here as anything that would deal with a virus. Three days ago the daughter of my closest friend was killed by a person texting. If laws were in proportion to deaths could this have not been prevented? Can't you see the numbers? The way people are using phones is killing other people. Or is it just that you text while driving and don't want to hear the down side?

Some may disagree but I feel that this is a worthy discussion. Who knows... someone might find this thread and not kill someone.

As to my posting in a tech forum where else to do? I put it in mobile devices and am talking about mobile devices... Where else would I put it?

I welcome comments as to where I am wrong and will answer as best as I can. However I totally dispute that this topic is in any way out of line for these forums. These forums are supposed to help people. Mayhaps putting out that texting kills more teens than drinking just might be hit on a search.

While you may not agree with my views this thread was placed within the proper forum and is worth consideration.

I started to back off but there is NOTHING wrong with anything that I have said in this thread and WILL continue the discussion as long as even one person promotes.

Oh... sorry... just dawned on me that saying anything against a phone is probably not considered to be politically correct. Sorry! I should have seen this and realized that it is better to be quiet and just let people die.

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Jay, I am sorry for the loss of your friend's daughter.

No, I do not text nor talk on a cell phone when driving. I've been driving for 62 years (including 55 on motorcycles), and I have never had an accident. And only one ticket in all those years, for loud mufflers when I was in high school.

I don't disagree with your concerns and conclusions regarding cell phones; in fact, I share your discomfort with the rudeness of cell phone users in public, and the danger that "texting while driving" presents to the public.

What I disagree with is your condescending dogmatic attitude. Three examples: (1) Your effort to dissuade your 70-year old working companion that she didn't need a 2017 smart phone with a newer GPS (yet you have never owned a GPS), and (2) your disregard for Patty's explanation of why she wanted her new Lumia (yet you never owned a smart phone), and (3) your implication that Patty and I may just text while driving and, therefore, don't want to hear the downside (utter nonsense).

And finally, I also disagree with your decision to discuss the ills of society on our technically-oriented Computer Haven, a forum for which you have the deserved distinction of being our Resident Geekazoid. Over the years, you have been invaluable to me with solving and implementing computer issues, and I have always expressed my appreciation and admiration of your technical wisdom and expertise.

But now I am sadden because you chose to use Computer Haven for your personal vendetta against cell phones.

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BB
http://barrypatch.net

Jay, Bb is correct once again. I don't disagree with your points - how you made them was pretty offensive. After my first post on this thread I felt completely, and unfairly, attacked by your response. You have made assumptions about my behavior, and others, that were totally unwarranted. I see now that this was done in the heat of loss and grief. I understand that, and am sorry for what has happened. However, you should know better than to post, and get into arguments, when you are not being rational.

Yes, you have not been rational on this thread. Again, you make valid points - but you attack your friends in the process. That is not rational - we are not to blame for your friend's death, yet you somehow make it seem so. You are equating things that are not equal. Our use of cell phones, even smartphones, does not equal everyone else's use of smartphones, does not equal your friend being killed. You do owe us an apology.

This could have been posted in General Discussions.

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

So, ok, Jay, what are we supposed to do, get rid of all mobile devices that cause distracted driving? That would be like trying to once again outlaw alcohol because of drunk drivers. These things are here to stay and I bet for every life they take, they save a life. I am fully frustrated with the distracted driving, but what are we supposed to do about it? Using a cell phone at all while driving is illegal in Harrisburg but on any given day I see several people using them. I am open to suggestions about what to do about this but please don't say "hire more officers", no community has the resources to do that anymore. And especially please don't say "educate the public" because ignorant, impatient people can never be educated.

Acadia

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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

@bbarry, apologies for upsetting you but after the 10 posts prior to mine it should have been pretty clear to you where this 'discussion' was heading, no-one forces you to read every post in every thread and you can stop reading any thread at any time.

As for "personal rants", Jay made it perfectly clear when he started this thread that he was going to "rant"... his first three words were in fact "A rant follows" so I fail to understand which part of anything that followed should come as a surprise to you.

My so called "rant" was simply my response to three others who posted before me and who expressed similar thoughts, in this thread.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but trust me, you don't feel half as angry than I do over your unwarranted personal attack on me.

Sigh... this is exactly why I normally remove these types of posts before this stuff gets started. Now we have hard feelings between members where they didn't have to be. This is not what CH is about, and indeed it violates forum rules.

I let this whole thread go, this time, as an object lesson. Primarily to Jay.

Jay, I don't believe you truly understood why I run the forum the way I do. I hope this has been a lesson. I'm going to let this play out for those concerned in it - but I will then be removing the entire thread.

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

Actually I came here to remove the thread as it obviously got way too volatile. I did not expect that to happen. Since you said that you are going to let it play out I will not kill it at this time.

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Thank you, Jay.

Anyone have a last comment they feel they must make? If not, I am certainly done with this, as is Jay.

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

I will make a last comment...

As I said in an earlier post I am sorry if I offended anyone as that was not my intent. All I was really trying to say is that too many people abuse these devices as it relates to curtesy toward other people and in relation to the safety of other people. My statements were in no way meant to imply that members here abuse the things. Nor was it meant to mean that all people do so.

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