Register    Login    Search    Articles & downloads     Who We Are    Donate    Jaylach Free Sites

Board index » Technical Forums » Security




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:36 am 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:45 am
Posts: 1073
I ask this because my anti-Virus, MS Security Essentials, has not been doing too well recently in tests and I am thinking of switching, but to what?

http://securitywatch.pcmag.com/security-software/307816-microsoft-security-essentials-tanks-another-antivirus-test

http://www.ibtimes.com/microsoft-security-essentials-fails-antivirus-certification-test-second-time-row-microsoft-disputes

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-security-essentials-fails-another-antivirus-test

Thanks,
Acadia

_________________
The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:14 am 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
To be honest I don't pay a lot of attention to tests, I go by personal experience.

I run Security Essentials and MBAM Pro along with the Windows firewall and a router.

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:27 am 
Offline
Fearless Leader
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:42 am
Posts: 2819
Ditto, Jay. Except I don't run the Pro version of MBAM. (Malwarebytes Anti-Malware.) I just use it as an on-demand scanner.

_________________
Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:49 am 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:45 am
Posts: 1073
Quote from one of the articles I posted:
"...but my view is that if lots of different tests, from competing test houses that use different methodologies/approaches, reach similar conclusions then those conclusions start to be appear increasingly convincing."

I use so many other security programs that it probably does not even matter however if I am going to expend system resources on a program I might was well have a good one.

Thanks,
Acadia

_________________
The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:31 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 2946
Location: New Jersey
The tests are basically worthless, in my opinion, unless the testing entity publishes detailed information on how the test were carried out. In my experience most of them don't, and when it is provided it is clear that the tests don't mirror real world experience at all.
Now, that said, it is valid to consider the test results as one small part of your overall evaluation of security for your PC.
I still stand by MSE (and Windows Defender in Windows 8) as being excellent protection as long as other measures are taken -- most notably, keeping programs up to date (Flash, Adobe Reader, Windows, Office, Java -- better yet, remove Java) and being cautious about where you surf and what you click.
In recent weeks I've seen a rise of something that appears to be disabling MSE and Defender -- as the most widely used antivirus on Windows in the world today, it seems to have risen to the top of the attack list, too. I have no details yet on what is causing it, but the results are that MSE is shut down and that attempts to uninstall and reinstall are met with permissions warnings. Preliminary finding appear to be that the malware has modified the program locations to become NTFS "junction points" which are not handled by the installation script.
My basic advice is that *no* antivirus program will be 100% effective. Whatever you choose, you cannot reply on it and go click happy with woefully outdated and insecure programs, add-ins, and operating system. :-)

-steve

_________________
stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 11:45 pm 
Offline
Fearless Leader
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:42 am
Posts: 2819
I wonder if they are getting in via Java. I haven't seen any of this yet, Steve. I've removed Java from most of my clients' computers.

_________________
Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:38 am 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
Acadia, I'm going to be as fair as I can here. To do that I will ask you a question. In one form or another I have been messing with these contraptions for over thirty years. Not once in all that time have I ever had an infection shut me down. I've been using Security Essentials since it came out and still have not had an infection that has shut me down. In fact, scanning with Security Essentials and MBAM Pro, I have not had a positive result even once. You have often spoken about security in layers. I use 4 layers including MSE, MBAM Windows firewall and a router. My security measures have not once failed.

OK, now the question. With the history I have stated why should I even think about changing? If you can give a rational, logical reason then I will consider. That rational and logical reason has to be able to overcome my proven track record.

As I have often said before I truly believe that some worry too much about security; worry to the point that it becomes an obsession. As Steve stated, no AV is perfect. That is why you use layers. My friend, with ALL due respect, I truly and honestly believe that you worry about this aspect of computers too much.

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:16 am 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:45 am
Posts: 1073
jaylach wrote:
...why should I even think about changing?

I am not asking ANYONE to think about changing, I was simply asking for opinions for myself and giving the reason why.

jaylach wrote:
My friend, with ALL due respect, I truly and honestly believe that you worry about this aspect of computers too much.

"Security is always excessive until it's not enough." - Robbie Sinclair, Country Energy, NSW Australia

Acadia

_________________
The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:26 am 
Offline
Fearless Leader
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:42 am
Posts: 2819
Of course there is another leg or two to security... safe browsing, and backup. With all of that in place (same as Jay), I don't even worry about security. I have recently had two rogue's pop up when I visited a web site that came up on search results. I have simply done what I caution all my clients to do. Shut down - without touching any browser windows. No ill effects. But even if there were, I would simply restore from backup.

_________________
Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:31 am 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:35 am
Posts: 715
I'll have to go with Acadia on this one. Third party tests are useful because they perform a relative comparison of products. They set up a environment that is relative for all products which is useful in that limited sense. Certainly they don't reproduce a "real world" experience. How can they? That's the magic of a PC. A 100 identical computers don't end up identical in a very short time. There's no such thing as a typical computer environment. So these tests take a standard environment and see how different products perform in that unique environment. In that fashion they provide a useful comparison that is standardized and thus personal subjective opinion is not involved. While perhaps not ideal, since all testing is subject to criticism, it's better than guessing.

Doing an analysis this way is better than saying I've never been infected in thirty years because that speaks to a user's practice rather than how a security product performs. Jay, as your history dictates, you can avoid using an AV or use any AV, and still have the same results. For you, and me actually since I'm in the same boat, which specific AV is installed just doesn't matter. But it says nothing about which AV product performs better when it might matter. After all, these product actually do something so it is worthwhile to figure out which are top performers and choose among those using a relative method rather than just a gut feeling.

To answer your question Acadia, I use the Outpost suite on my personal machine and ESET Nod 32 on the other machines in my network. I do it because they perform reasonably well on third party testing, are simple to use and don't cause any significant problems for the user.

Of course, and I think we can all agree, security products can all fail and humans do make mistakes. Having the ability to restore your machine from a clean backup[s] is the best security measure of all.

_________________
Best regards,
Manny Carvalho
MS-MVP since 2002


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:33 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:25 pm
Posts: 1916
Location: Pembrokeshire, South Wales, UK
Well I use the layers method, first the router then Windows Firewall. I have SpywareBlaster, MalwareBytes Pro, Microsoft Security Essentials, Internet Explorer 10 set to it's defaults with WOT (Web of Trust) installed.

I've had WOT throw up a warning if I've tried to go to some sites telling me they don't trust them so I don't bother carrying on, MalwareBytes Pro throws up the occasional pop up that it has blocked something.

I don't have Java installed, got rid of that ages ago, I also have Secunia PSI and I make sure everything is kept updated.

I have the same set up on my Windows 7 desktop and my Windows 8 Notebook. I've set up hubby's Laptop and his Desktop both running Windows 7 with the same apart from his desktop has SuperAntiSpyware Pro instead of MalwareBytes, but everything else is the same.

_________________
Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com
Image


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 1:02 am 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
Acadia wrote:
jaylach wrote:
...why should I even think about changing?

I am not asking ANYONE to think about changing, I was simply asking for opinions for myself and giving the reason why.


Oops! Sorry Acadia, another case where I could have worded things better. I didn't at all mean that line as to mean that you should give me a reason to change. I meant it in a rhetorical sense.

To be honest I have not looked at these tests for ages. Don't know if it is the same now as then but from what I used to see if I went with the top test results I'd be changing my security about every other month.

Also, as Patty pointed out, safe browsing and backups are the best security of all. Since you do both I can't really see where you will run into an issue regardless of the AV you use. ;)

I will say that I have come to REALLY like MBAM Pro. I do a LOT of searches and many times MBAM Pro has alerted that it blocked malicious code from a site. Of course I have no idea as to how many were actual threats. ;)

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 8:28 am 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:45 am
Posts: 1073
jaylach wrote:
I will say that I have come to REALLY like MBAM Pro.

Last month PC Magazine tested 40 scanner products. Malwarebytes was their Editors' Top Choice for free cleanup-only scanner.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2372364,00.asp

Acadia

_________________
The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:15 am 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
I also like the free version but now use the paid version. Could not pass up the deal, got it for $15.00. :)

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 3:06 am 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:24 am
Posts: 75
Location: Burntwood, Staffordshire, ENGLAND
I use ESET security suite, both an anti virus and firewall. I also use Suoerantispyware and Malware bytes. I put Trojan Hunter onto the computer some time ago when I had Trojans. It was very effective at the time.

_________________
The worlds finest composer ever, was Gustav Mahler.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 5:28 pm 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 1:27 am
Posts: 121
Location: South of England
I hope no one will mind me making a post as follows for my first one here. All well-intentioned even if it might be thought a load of rubbish. :)

AV testing sites/services look to do a fairly good job of comparing how one security program measures up against another regarding known-about malware. I'd always go for one that came consistently near the top of the lists. As far as I can see though, it isn't possible to test how any program would stand up to a zero day threat. Afterall, the malware sample isn't there to test it with yet.

Nonetheless, I'm sure an AV program is still a worthwhile and necessary layer of protection. It should instantly protect against the huge number of known viruses that are around and even block some that aren't by way of behaviour patterns ..hopefully without any false positives. If zero day malware does end up on the computer, an AV program would eventually isssue protection against it, let the computer user know about it and deal with it (we hope).

Safe browsing helps in staying malware-free but this might not always work. Anyone researching a subject on the Internet could click on a link that looks OK but isn't. It's not always possible to tell if the site a link leads to is safe. I use WOT as a guide when researching a subject but even then, nothing is certain.

I think sandboxing provides a good layer of protection against zero-day and drive-by malware. If this does the job as it should, it then doesn't matter if malware is either known about or zero-day. It stays confined to the sandbox and won't infect the system outside of it. I wouldn't envisage these layers failing but if it were to happen, then backups and disk images are good measures to have to hand.

_________________
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boots44/


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 6:25 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:25 pm
Posts: 1916
Location: Pembrokeshire, South Wales, UK
Welcome to the forum Mart, your post was not a load of rubbish it made valid points.

Acadia is a firm believer of Sandboxing and you will see if you read his posts is very security focused.

Like you I use WOT but another thing I always do as well is whenever I see a link I'll hover over it and look down at the bottom of the screen to see where it will actually take me. I've seen some interesting places where a link wants to send me instead of where it should go.

Again Welcome to our Forum and I hope you find it helpful and enjoy being with us.

_________________
Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com
Image


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:54 am 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 1:27 am
Posts: 121
Location: South of England
Thanks JoanA :) - I like to use a sandbox with whatever other security programs are installed. Sandboxie has been a long-term program for me but out of interest, I have recently been trying Qihoo 360 Internet Security (or '360 IS'). It gets some good reports, seems very light on the system and includes its own sandbox. It also uses 3 detection engines including Bitdefender's. Qihoo 360 IS is not being used at present but I will be going back to it soon to see how it stands the test of time.

Qihoo also offers 'Qihoo 360 Total Security', a different program that uses 5 detection engines including Bitdefender and Avira. However, it doesn't include a sandbox, so my preference is for 360 IS.

It might be thought from the names that a firewall is part of the package but neither program has one. I've been using it with the Windows 8.1 firewall (and a router) but others could be used.

_________________
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boots44/


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 10:27 am 
Offline
welcoming committee

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:54 pm
Posts: 324
Location: Central Wisconsin
Hi Joan, you reminded me of WOT which I thought I was using on an older machine but wasn't there. Do you know is www.mywot.com the official website for WOT? I thought it was sold by McAfee but maybe I'm thinking of a different browser help software.

Thanks for reminding me :)! katy

_________________
Don’t Underestimate The Power
Of Your Own Instinct.

- Barbara Corcoran


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 8:10 pm 
Offline
Resident Geekazoid Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:09 am
Posts: 9438
Location: The state of confusion; I just use Wyoming for mail.
I used to use a third party firewall years ago but danged if I can remember the name, would know it if I saw. My current belief is that the Windows firewall is sufficient for outgoing and a router with a firewall does the rest.

My D-Link router fires up a laptop, desktop, tablet and an on-line Blue-ray player. However, even if I only had one device, I would still use a firewalled router and recommend that everyone does so.

_________________
Image
Free sites from jaylach.com
I NEVER forget... I just remember late.


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:01 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:25 pm
Posts: 1916
Location: Pembrokeshire, South Wales, UK
katy98 wrote:
Hi Joan, you reminded me of WOT which I thought I was using on an older machine but wasn't there. Do you know is http://www.mywot.com the official website for WOT? I thought it was sold by McAfee but maybe I'm thinking of a different browser help software.

Thanks for reminding me :)! katy

No problems Katy, yes you can safely go to that link it is the official site.

I like the way that it puts the icon at the side of any list of places when doing a search so you can tell by the colour if it is a safe site. :)

_________________
Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com
Image


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:53 am 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 1:27 am
Posts: 121
Location: South of England
I read the WOT forums once in a while. There are some webmasters who say they have been assigned a red icon when they don't deserve it. Perhaps that's truly the case sometimes but I think generally, WOT gives a fairly good indication of whether a link to a site is safe to click or not. It works with quite a few different search engines too.

_________________
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boots44/


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:26 am 
Offline
welcoming committee

Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:54 pm
Posts: 324
Location: Central Wisconsin
JoanA wrote:
katy98 wrote:
Hi Joan, you reminded me of WOT which I thought I was using on an older machine but wasn't there. Do you know is http://www.mywot.com the official website for WOT? I thought it was sold by McAfee but maybe I'm thinking of a different browser help software.

Thanks for reminding me :)! katy

No problems Katy, yes you can safely go to that link it is the official site.

I like the way that it puts the icon at the side of any list of places when doing a search so you can tell by the colour if it is a safe site. :)
this is the part I like too Joan! Best part :)... Thanks for confirming the site :) katy

_________________
Don’t Underestimate The Power
Of Your Own Instinct.

- Barbara Corcoran


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:23 pm 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:45 am
Posts: 1073
katy98 wrote:
Hi Joan, you reminded me of WOT ... I thought it was sold by McAfee ...katy

NO!!! If WOT was a McAfee product there is no way that I would recommend it to others let alone use it myself for many years. If I am wrong and it really is a McAfee product, please, someone let me know! :nbite:

Thanks,
Acadia

_________________
The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 1:41 am 
Offline
welcoming committee
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 1:27 am
Posts: 121
Location: South of England
McAfee's product is called 'SiteAdvisor'. It was released in 2006 according to Wikipedia. I tried it for a while when it first appeared but then came across WOT (released in 2007), which I've used ever since. SiteAdvisor is still offered as a standalone program.

McAfee has been acquired by Intel. It seems likely that McAfee's programs could be re-branded as 'Intel Security'.

_________________
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boots44/


Top 
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Board index » Technical Forums » Security


Who is online

Registered users: No registered users

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Similar topics


Jump to:  

cron