Mart said: "I've more or less decided to put Norton Internet Security and Sandboxie back on. I know Norton is disliked by many but Norton and Sandboxie have proved to be a good combination for us over the years."

Sigh... and here I thought you were fitting in so well!

I have seen that Norton has gotten lighter. However, you still can't use System Restore with it installed, and I had a case the other week where the person was unable to get online. Norton was stopping her. Uninstalled Norton and everything was fine.

I use Microsoft Security Essentials here at home, and on all my client machines. I use Malwarebytes as a backup, generally the free version. For those who have a habit of clicking on things they shouldn't, I have them use Malwarebytes paid version. Never missed with this combo.

Mart, I have seen more odd, weird, system and program quirks and issues caused by Norton over the years, and still ongoing, to ever recommend it to anyone. Now I'm sure this thread is going to deteriorate into a "I use this," and "I use that." We generally feel strongly about antivirus programs. I wouldn't normally even pipe in, but I can't let a recommendation for Norton stand without saying something. Or McAfee. Anything else, be my guest. Just make sure you have Malwarebytes or something that protects from that type of malware also.

Now Sandboxie should pretty much mitigate anything your wife might catch, so I'm not sure that needs to be backed up with a full security suite like Norton. What I don't know is how Norton impacts the various recovery options of Windows 8. I know it sure debilitates System Restore!

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

And I think that is a strength of this forum. I have learned just as much from threads that went off topic as those that stayed on!!

Acadia

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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

I know people have had problems with Norton but apart from one or two minor things over the years (since 2009) it's been OK for me. I don't use System Restore but reach for disk images instead. No problems with Norton there. Maybe if I did use System Restore for return points, I might find the same problems and have a different opinion. However, I've developed my ways of looking after our computers over a long period of time and it works for them. Not suggesting that anyone else does the same but everything has been trouble-free for ages now, so I think I'll continue with the formula. Sorry about not fitting in very well. People usually say I'm quite a nice fellow apart from thinking Norton is OK.

I have had experience of 'refreshing' Windows 8.1 (without affecting files) on a computer with NIS installed. It reverted to Windows 8 but Norton worked OK.

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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boots44/

I didn't say you didn't fit in very well, Mart. I think you do, in fact. Happy to have you here! I got it on Norton, and I'm happy it has worked for you. And thanks for the info on the refresh.

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

I take security and other computer matters seriously but still tend to joke a little sometimes Patty. It's a fault of mine.

Mentioning MBAM, I bought a couple of lifetime licences for the Pro version a few years back (it was on special offer at the time). I'm glad I did now because because I read that, with the release of version 2, there is only annual licensing available. I've used the licence numbers I bought to activate version 2 and sure enough, the lifetime arrangement has been honoured.

I don't have MBAM installed all the time. Security programs change quite a bit on my computer, just to see how various programs behave. Kaspersky Internet Security is being used at present (no Sandboxie) but while programs are being tried, it's nice to load MBAM and a few other scanners occasionally to see if the trial program is keeping malware out. Always nice to know there is the option of using the realtime component of MBAM if I want it.

I think the trouble with any security program is that you never really know how well it works. When people say that they have been using a particular security program for years and never had any trouble, is it really that the program is good, or only that the they haven't yet come across the malware that can bypass it?

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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boots44/

I would think that most malware would cause some sort of issue eventually. It's hard for me to conceive of that not being the case.

I'm interested in how Kaspersky is doing for you. It's a program I have lots of respect for - but again, I've seen it cause so much trouble over the years.

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

I can't really speak from personal experience but my sister has been using Kaspersky for years without issue. For now I'm staying with MSE and MBAM Pro but, if I ever went paid AV again, I think that I prefer the user interface in Esets package. Then again I have looked at neither for quite a while.

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Yeah, I'd probably go for NOD32 also. Do they still do just AV, or do you have to get the suite? I hate suites.

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

Sorry, I can't answer that as I don't know and dinner is about ready and I am OVERLY ready to eat.

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I used Nod32 AV quite a few years ago and maybe I'll give it another try soon. Eset provide a security suite as well as their AV program.

I don't mind suites. The reason I started favouring them was because I found separates, especially firewalls, were always asking me to take the decisions on whether or not a process was safe to run or connect to the Internet. My answer was, " How should I know? I expect you to tell me that. That's why I got you!" See, although I obviously have an interest in security, I don't always want to be looking after the computer once a security program has been chosen. My expectation is that it should know more about whether a process is safe or not than I do. I like to play a game or two or create simple vector graphics and don't always want to be thinking about security.

I find that suites tend to fulfil this 'quiet' requirement more than separates do, while still giving protection over and above that provided by Windows Defender or MSE (in my opinion).

Norton certainly does that and if the results from 'AV-Test' are anything to go by, it offers protection as good or better than some other products. Bitdefender and Kaspersky are long-term high rankers too, both of which I've used over the years.

Comodo Internet Security has recently gone down the 'quiet' route. It attempts to take decisions for the user (although can be set to do otherwise). It provides a sandbox and 'Virtual Kiosk'. With all components of the program running in combination, CIS provides good protection without giving the constant alerts and permission requests that it once did. Some don't like the fact that Comodo has gone this way but I do.

I try security programs out of interest but one that starts asking for permissions, doesn't usually spend very long on the computer. I know there are non-suite realtime security programs that look after themselves (MBAM Pro for instance) but on balance, I have found suites to be less intrusive than separates.

However, I'm always willing to update opinions and might do this regarding suites. Nothing to do with the protection they give. I think they do a pretty good job in that respect. The reason is that they are starting to include too much that I won't use. Nothing decided yet but I might try a few separates to see how they are these days.

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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boots44/

Ah, I totally agree on that! That's how these suites fell out of favor with me to begin with. Asking poor uneducated computer users to make decisions that they wouldn't have a clue how to answer, and possibly opening them up to attacks/malware by making the wrong decision! That's precisely why I went with MSE. It's simple, unobtrusive, does a good job. Combined with Malwarebytes, free or paid, and Windows Firewall. AND being behind a router with the highest wireless security (or Ethernet, even better) AND a strong password protecting the router settings. I have found this to be entirely adequate.

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

I have the same set up as you Patty, the 2 desktops are connected via Ethernet to the router, that is at the highest security setting and changing the admin password was the first thing I did when setting it up. The 2 laptops are WiFi but only connect to the home router, mine doesn't even leave the house and Johns only goes to 1 other house but is only used to run Excel so doesn't need to be connected to the Internet.

Years ago I used NOD32 and at one time ZoneAlarm firewall. I changed to MSE when that came out.

Hopefully I've learnt enough common sense to protect myself, so I'll carry on with MSE, the native Firewall, MalwareBytes Pro, WOT, SpywareBlaster and a strong protected router. I also run Internet Explorer 11 with it's strong settings.

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Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com

It IS kind of funny how things have changed and the current importance of a router. When I first got in to computers I had both a VHS and Beta Max tape player/recorder... A Beta Max! I did also have a computer. And, YES, there was on-line access but not the internet. Local BBS systems and FIDO Net would take another thread to discuss. In those days a router was usually not needed and was rare.

Now let's jump to today's reality... OK, my setup just plain would not work without a router as I have my media system (desktop computer) wired to a router. I also have a laptop, Blu-ray player and tablet connected via wireless to that router. Obviously I need a router but would still use one even if I had only one device connected. Why would I use a router with only one device that could be directly connected to the internet modem? Security is the reason. Even if there is only one system involved a router with a hardware firewall adds a strong layer to the defense against the bad guys.

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Exactly, Jay. Router is key.

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

I just got a new modem/router from Virgin Media. It comes with the strong ( ) default password of 'changeme', which I duly have. Both main computers are hard-wired to the router but the iPad and other items connect wirelessly. Until we got to this stage in life, I always preferred hard-wiring and there was no need to keep wireless function enabled. It would be a bit inconvenient to plug everything into a port now though. All the children and grandchildren have their own laptops and phones that they like to use while here. There'd be wires everywhere if plugging into the back of the router.

I used to repair VHS and Betamax video recorders Jay. VHS was the most popular standard here because it was the one adopted by the rental companies. This set the trend as many people preferred to rent back then. It meant they could call the company if there was a fault and have someone like me come out to repair it at no extra charge.

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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boots44/

My video recorder is still connected to my TV plus the Sky + box and a DVD player. Not up to date yet there as the TV is still the old CRT so no Internet access through it and no HD, but I can play DVDs on it and my collection of Videos.
The Sky box is only the + box so no HD there either so if I wanted HD I'd have to upgrade the box and the TV.

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Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com

My video player/recorder packed in a while ago and I couldn't get the part to mend it. Can't remember what it was now but video recorder parts were tiny and mostly, special to the particular model. The irreparable breakdown has left me with quite a collection of video tapes that were given as gifts and they can't be played. Maybe I should look around for another VHS tape player.

The last one I mended was for a friend. A mechanical part had gone wrong and I found somewhere to buy it on the Internet. It was a part reclaimed from an old machine but it got our friend's video recorder working again.

Back to computer security: My new computer is here now, although I won't set it up until after the weekend (family staying). When I do put it in place, I'll be transferring this computer to Mrs Mart. Her old one will be used by me with a dual-boot Windows 7/Linux arrangement. I quite like Ubuntu and Zorin but don't know if I'll protect these systems with any kind of anti-virus program yet ..and if so, what.

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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boots44/

Two things.

First: I have enjoyed reading the antics of you folks playing with your security setups. I, too, don't like suites but only because I have never found a perfect one (for my standards be they good or bad). But I have loved thru the years playing with dozens of security programs and making them play nicely together, but most of you already know that. The secret of it all is, back yourself up so many times that no matter how badly you shoot yourself in the foot, you can recover.

Second: Comcast informed me a couple of weeks ago that they had increased my Internet speed but my old Comcast modem could not handle the increase, so they sent me a new, well, monster. I was used to the old SIMPLE modem that was only a modem and I plugged into it an Apple router, a router which I trusted for security. This new monster has everything built into one: a modem, router, wi-fi, and I ASSume an hardware NAT firewall? Question: I hated giving up my trusty Apple router, but does anyone know enough about this brand new thing from Comcast? I only need to know from a security aspect because everything else, the Internet speed for our pcs and two mobile devices, is excellent. Thanks much.

Having trouble keeping up with the latest stuff,
Acadia

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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

Too true about the backing up Acadia. Backups are always to hand if needed ..and backups of the backups. Lots of people still end up losing files because they haven't them backed up to somewhere away from the primary drive.

Your new monster sounds a bit like the Virgin Media 'Superhub 2' that I have. I think all this type of device includes a firewall that can be turned on or off. It's on by default I believe but it might be worth checking the settings in the one you have.

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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boots44/

If your Apple router is capable of handling your new found speed then there's no real reason to give it up Acadia. Using both devices would give you a double NATed setup and two devices the bad guys have to go through. My own setup is similar - a modem/router from my internet provider hooked up to my wireless router.

The double NAT setup is a little more difficult if you want to inbound connect remotely because you have to setup port forwarding. I suspect, however, that's not an issue for you so that you should be able to simply swap modems and keep going.

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Best regards,
Manny Carvalho
MS-MVP since 2002

But what I want to know, Acadia, is how's your SPEED? )))

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Patty MacDuffie
Computer Haven Administrator

Live Long and Prosper
Mr. Spock

Mart44 and Manny, thanks, interesting stuff.

@Mart44: yes, indeed, I found a firewall inside the monster but it was set at the lowest setting. There are four settings, Custom Security, Minimum Security (Low), Typical Security (Medium), and Maximum Security (High). I changed it to Medium which tested completely stealth at grc.com. I might have to play with the maximum setting to see it that interferes with anything.

@Manny: hmmm, connecting my router to the monster, might have to play with that.

@Patty:28.87mbps

Thanks all,
Acadia

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The blazing evidence of immortality is our dissatisfaction with any other solution. -- Emerson

Don't be shy, Acadia. We want the gory details on your speed tests with the new connection. Go to:
http://www.speedtest.net/
and do the test and post the image results.

Here are mine:


Going with a test server on the far east coast... Since on the other side of the country I'm a bit surprised at the relative results, a touch faster.


OK, server in the middle of Europe...

I seem to be pretty quick and consistent world wide.

As to your new modem and your old Apple router... As Manny said, you SHOULD be able to just go with the following connection as long as you do not do remote access to your system which I don't think that you do.

1. Connect your internet line to the new modem/router.
2. Use an Ethernet out port from the new modem/router to your Apple router.
3. From this point just connect to your systems as you have in the past. As long as you are not trying to access your system remotely you should see zero difference but will have an added layer of protection.

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This is fast for me, but it is Sunday morning, usually it's under the 4. It's the speed for my Notebook over WiFi.
I'd love to get even half the speed some of you lot get.

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Joan Archer
http://crossstitcher.webs.com

I know -- crazy speed.

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stephen boots
Microsoft MVP 2004 - 2020
"Life's always an adventure with computers!"