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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:04 pm 
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The BIOS is not part of the hard drive. The BIOS is a chip on the mother board.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:19 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
The BIOS is not part of the hard drive. The BIOS is a chip on the mother board.


So, can the bios which is a chip on the mother board be fixed so that the cloned drive will boot correctly?


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Doing some thinking on says to me that you should hold on until Doddie and I agree on a procedure. Right now we are looking at different directions which has to be very confusing for you... sorry about that. Actually I think that Doddie and I agree as to possible issues but differ on how it would be best to proceed.

Yes, a BIOS issue can usually be fixed but the question would be if it would be cost effective if the BIOS chip needed to be replaced.

To be honest I'm not sure if you could clone your drive right now with only 2 GB free space. Shoot, it takes 10% free space to even be able to defrag a drive. If this would cause an issue cloning I really don't know. I don't think any harm would be done if the clone failed as you would be just where you are now. It is possible that you may have to gain more free space on the old drive before cloning.

Let's refresh things a bit as to your current situation... The system boots normally but you are unable to get in the BIOS. Other than the BIOS issue the system is running OK. If the system seems slow that would be normal with only having 2 GB free space. Is this correct? Also, am I correct that the system only has one hard drive.

HEY! Weird thought but disconnect everything USB from the system except mouse/keyboard. See if that lets you back in the BIOS. The only reason I'd like to see this tried is that Patty's last system would not boot if a thumb drive was plugged in.

@ Doddie: I know that you want to flash the BIOS and I have no problem with that. My question on this is how to do it when there seems to be no access to the BIOS. My memory may be failing but it seems to me that one has to be able to enter the BIOS to start the flash. Part of me tells me that I may be wrong on this and that there are flashing utilities that can be booted to do the job. Is that correct? It has been a LONG time since I've flashed an old style BIOS. LOL! On my newest build I flash the UEFI BIOS within the BIOS using the internet... How things have changed...

I am curious as to why you would not want to clear the CMOS before flashing the BIOS. It just seems to me to be the first step. Say that we flash the BIOS but the actual issue is a corrupted CMOS. We flash the BIOS and the issue remains. I tend to go with the K.I.S.S. (Keep I Simple Stupid) method, do the easiest possibility first. A messed up CMOS could cause serious issues. Why not clear the CMOS before messing with the BIOS? To me it seems the simplest first step. My main concern here is that clearing the CMOS MAY mess up the hard drive boot priority. I doubt that would happen as I believe there is only one hard drive involved.

Am I being more senile than normal and missing something? :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:08 pm 
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I am currently copying everything on the Computer hard drive to an external drive so that I can cut about 80gb off the main hard drive. It has about 2-1/2 hours left to go and when it is finished, I will disconnect every usb port and try rebooting. I also want everything copied in case I am unable fix this bios problem.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:19 pm 
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Good move. I meant to advise to copy data to another media but forgot.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:09 am 
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Hi, Allyson.

The discussion is speculation. :-)

Cloning the drive to replace your existing drive is important since you reported that the current drive is running with very little free space. Proceed with that.

You haven't had the boot problem for a while, so that may or may not need to be dealt with -- later.

-steve

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:23 am 
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sboots wrote:
Hi, Allyson.

The discussion is speculation. :-)

Cloning the drive to replace your existing drive is important since you reported that the current drive is running with very little free space. Proceed with that.

You haven't had the boot problem for a while, so that may or may not need to be dealt with -- later.

-steve


Hi Steve......I finished copying everything last night and removed sufficient files where I now have 82gb of free space. I did try removing all the usb plug ins except keyboard and mouse but I am still unable to get into the bios when I reboot, so something is wrong there. It is still booting ok though so maybe best to wait and see what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Since it is booting fine and starting Windows, I agree with waiting until there is a problem. Is this a laptop, tablet, or desktop machine?
-steve

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:54 pm 
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It could be a matter of not hitting the DEL key fast enough at the start, I put a 2 second delay on mine so that if I need it I have time to get in. Computers are so fast today that the start up sequence flies by and leaves you little to no time to press a key to get into the BIOS. You almost have to start tapping it as you are turning on the power.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:25 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
@ Doddie: I know that you want to flash the BIOS and I have no problem with that. My question on this is how to do it when there seems to be no access to the BIOS. My memory may be failing but it seems to me that one has to be able to enter the BIOS to start the flash. Part of me tells me that I may be wrong on this and that there are flashing utilities that can be booted to do the job. Is that correct? It has been a LONG time since I've flashed an old style BIOS. LOL! On my newest build I flash the UEFI BIOS within the BIOS using the internet... How things have changed...

I am curious as to why you would not want to clear the CMOS before flashing the BIOS. It just seems to me to be the first step. Say that we flash the BIOS but the actual issue is a corrupted CMOS. We flash the BIOS and the issue remains. I tend to go with the K.I.S.S. (Keep I Simple Stupid) method, do the easiest possibility first. A messed up CMOS could cause serious issues. Why not clear the CMOS before messing with the BIOS? To me it seems the simplest first step. My main concern here is that clearing the CMOS MAY mess up the hard drive boot priority. I doubt that would happen as I believe there is only one hard drive involved.

Am I being more senile than normal and missing something? :mrgreen:


LOL, i wouldn't say i 'want' Allyson to flash her BIOS (that reads pretty badly! lol) but i do believe all the indicators are pointing at her BIOS being corrupt... by all means clear the CMOS i just don't think it'll make much a difference, my understanding is the CMOS is a place-holder for the chosen settings in the BIOS, I'm not sure how or why data stored within the CMOS should or could prevent the BIOS from loading other than the BIOS itself being corrupt.

As for how to flash a BIOS when there is no access to it... that will depend on the motherboard manufacturer and what tools they offer, in almost all cases though there are ways to update, restore/backup, or simply reflash a BIOS outwith the BIOS.

In days of old it was traditionally done with a bootable DOS disc that contained a BIOS rom file, other more modern methods have been to use a motherboard utility that will write the rom data to a (for example) USB flash drive and make the USB flash drive bootable.. boot from the now bootable USB flash drive and it pretty much did the rest.
The latest UEFI BIOS's have of course taken things to a new level with options to flash from within windows etc.

My point is, there should be a way to flash Allyson's BIOS but how it is done will depend on the manufacturer and model of her motherboard.

I don't know about you being senile and missing something, but i certainly could be, on both counts! :rofl2:


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:39 pm 
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sboots wrote:
Since it is booting fine and starting Windows, I agree with waiting until there is a problem. Is this a laptop, tablet, or desktop machine?
-steve


This is a desktop computer with the monitor on the desktop along side two other monitors and all 3 desktop computers are below the desk. It is also connected to the 42inch tv in the living room as well as two docking stations and my printer so there is a jungle of wires back there and quite a chore if one of the boxes needs to be pulled, especially this one as it is in the middle.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:43 pm 
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dvair wrote:
It could be a matter of not hitting the DEL key fast enough at the start, I put a 2 second delay on mine so that if I need it I have time to get in. Computers are so fast today that the start up sequence flies by and leaves you little to no time to press a key to get into the BIOS. You almost have to start tapping it as you are turning on the power.

Hi........you just described how I have been doing the tapping process :rofl2: Thanks for your input though.


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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:54 pm 
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My UEFI BIOS actually has a Windows utitily to re-boot directly to the BIOS. If it is set in the BIOS for fast boot there is no other option as it is literally impossible to enter the BIOS by being fast enough to hit a key.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 Wont Boot
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Allyson wrote:
sboots wrote:
Since it is booting fine and starting Windows, I agree with waiting until there is a problem. Is this a laptop, tablet, or desktop machine?
-steve


This is a desktop computer with the monitor on the desktop along side two other monitors and all 3 desktop computers are below the desk. It is also connected to the 42inch tv in the living room as well as two docking stations and my printer so there is a jungle of wires back there and quite a chore if one of the boxes needs to be pulled, especially this one as it is in the middle.


Sounds like it would more fun (not) than dealing with the wires behind/beneath my desk. :-)

-steve

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