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 Post subject: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:43 pm 
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I NEED advice and help...

I am trying to save a system owned by a co-worker. It is a Toshiba laptop with Win 7 Home. It is a total mess. Before I start to describe the situation I am fully aware that the system NEEDS a clean install of the OS. Unfortunately the owner does not want to do this due to one stupid game. I don't get this as the specific game asks for a user name and password on launch which indicates that it is on-line based. In my opinion just do a clean install and re-download the game and enter the credentials.... I have an email out to the owner asking permission to do this.

OK, the system. I was able to kill the Norton install. I THINK that the Norton install was a large part of the issue as it was Norton 2011. I don't think that it is even still supported as to definitions but could be wrong. After killing Norton I installed Security Essentials and MBAM Free. Between the two over 2000 problems were found. Granted many were just PUPS but a lot were not.

I thought of a possibility but it failed. I tried upgrading via an install disk from 7 Home to Ultimate figuring that all system files would be replaced and problems would be within the created Windows.old folder. This option fails saying to use the Anytime Upgrade feature. Now I can do this but have no idea as to how it really works. If I do an 'Anytime Upgrade' does it replace system files or just unlock features?

Here is the current situation. I used msconfig to turn of all startup programs and basically the system works well with exceptions. Both MBAM and Security Essentials show clean but the system is still broken. Windows Updates is not functional and any download attempted with IE fails. Downloads through Chrome work fine but, if I try to download a specific update through Chrome it will download but fail to install. I have done a complete reset of Updates along with a reset of IE with no positive results.

I DO have an email out to the owner asking permission to do a clean install explaining my thoughts about the game. I also asked if I could do a free upgrade to Windows 10 which would basically do what I attempted when I tried to do an upgrade from 7 home to ultimate. Yes, at least a week ago, the free upgrade to 10 IS still available via two methods. It is just no longer available via Updates.

Any thoughts or advice? I am fully aware that the system needs wiped and hope the owner will give permission. Failing that I would think that the free upgrade to 10, followed with the killing of Windows.old via Disk Cleanup, would do just about as good as a clean install if followed by in-depth scans.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:02 pm 
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Doing some searching, it seems that the Anytime Upgrade is no longer available.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... -available


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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:08 pm 
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dvair wrote:
Doing some searching, it seems that the Anytime Upgrade is no longer available.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/hel ... -available

I don't think that it would have done the job anyway as I THINK that it just unlocks features instead of replacing system files.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:22 pm 
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You might try one other thing - creating a new Windows profile. Often system issues can be profile dependent.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:39 pm 
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A couple of things I'd try but the most obvious is starting again from fresh...

1. Assuming you haven't already run the Norton Removal Tool, I'd download and run that first, passed experience of Norton products (especially older versions) has taught me that they rarely clean uninstall... the Removal Tool is much improved as far as I can tell:
https://support.norton.com/sp/en/uk/hom ... file_en_us

2. I'm not familiar with Toshiba laptops but I'd look into repairing the corrupt OS using their restore discs or recovery partition without actually wiping the partition, failing that I'd go semi nuclear and have a shot at re-installing the OS on top of itself with a retail(?) copy of Window 7 Home Premium.

3. System File Checker is probably a long shot if the OS is as bad as you hint at, but might be worth a shot.

Hopefully the owner sees sense and allows you to do a format and clean install.


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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:31 pm 
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Good ideas, Doddie. Except I think that System File Checker would be a disaster at this point in time. It would restore a lot of system files to their original versions, which are years out of date, and you could wind up with an amalgam of old and new files that would be very unstable and might even leave you with an unbootable machine.

You're right about hoping for the clean install. It really is the answer here.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:33 pm 
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Jay, get more info on the game. You might be able to save it by copying its directory, its dll's and its main registry key. Worth a shot.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:03 pm 
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MacDuffie wrote:
Good ideas, Doddie. Except I think that System File Checker would be a disaster at this point in time. It would restore a lot of system files to their original versions, which are years out of date, and you could wind up with an amalgam of old and new files that would be very unstable and might even leave you with an unbootable machine.

You're more than likely correct, I haven't actually used SFC since I ran Win98 but I thought I'd throw it out there simply because the option still exists, it was useful back then for extracting & overwriting system files that became corrupt when the system would halt with a BSOD... WinXP pretty much made SFC redundant in my experience, I've never needed/used it with Win7.

To be honest I've never really understood why SFC still exists in the same format but I guess that's a discussion for another day ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:07 pm 
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Thanks Doddie. :) Sadly the recovery partition seems to have been removed.

Patty, I've already copied the game install to a memory card and it launches on my media system. I'm waiting for the owner's log-in credentials to fully test.

Creating a new user account seems to have fixed the download issue with IE but not updates. I've tried manually installing KB3020369 without apparent success. It has been sitting for 2 hours looking for installed updates.

Hopefully, if the game pans out, the owner will allow me to do a clean install. It is really the only safe way to go.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:09 pm 
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That may require some other handlings, the Windows Update issue. I have to get going right now so can't detail them, but there are a number of things that can be done. However, the Windows Update Troubleshooter, which I believe is present in Windows 7, is likely the best first option.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:10 pm 
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Doddie, you are right. SFC has outlived its usefulness and should likely be removed.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:59 pm 
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All problems solved in a VERY bad way. I'm not fixing the system. It NEEDS a clean install and he will not give the OK. Even an upgrade to Win 10 fails while looking for updates. I can easily see from looking in the download folder that there have been many illegal installs.

I am taking the stand that there will be a clean install or I will not touch the system. I even deleted the account where IE worked as to doing downloads.

This may seem harsh but you have to understand that I was doing this for free. You also must understand that I spent half of my days off work on this project. I got zero input when I asked. If I sound pissed it is only due to the fact that I am. He can take the thing to a shop.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:46 pm 
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Yes, I would stop at the illegal installs myself. I won't deal with someone who would do that. They're just as likely to turn around and blame you for breaking their machines.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:13 am 
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LOL! NOW he comes back and says to go ahead and wipe the thing. I'll have to think about it...

As to the illegal installs that seems to have probably been a step son that no longer has access... more to think about...

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:46 am 
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Sigh... I MAY be a sucker but Windows is installing clean. Returning a clean system is better than returning one that is ready to corrupt other systems. It is my hope that I'm right that the illegal installs were done by the step son as I know the owner and see no way that the person would be interested in high level audio editing and sequencer software. Such software were the illegal installs.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:49 am 
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OK, Jay. You've got good judgment in such things. I'm sure I would do the same if I knew the person.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:23 am 
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This is sort of off the wall but I can't fully install Win 7 on this system. It is totally weird...

My first attempt was to install 7 Ultimate via a slipstreamed SP1 install disk with formatting the drive. Everything was fine except that Win Updates refused to work. Did all the fixes and patches to fix without success.

OK... so I went back to my MSDN install disk that is from before Win 7 SP1. All works fine including Updates. I install my local copy of SP1 and Updates is again broken.

I repeat the process but allow SP1 to be done via Updates. As soon as it launches I get an alert that my version of Windows is out of date and I need to upgrade to 10. I choose to not do the upgrade and SP1 still installs fine but, again, Updates is broken.

I have used both of these install methods quite often without issue.

I HOPE that this is just a fluke but have some concerns...

1) Proven install methods no longer work properly.

2) The Update issue happens as soon as SP 1 is applied via upgrade or slipstream install.

3) Allow the Win 7 install from before SP1 and then apply SP1 allowing Windows to upgrade to 10 and all is fine.

I refuse to say that MS has modified the upgrade from Win 7 to 7-SP1 to make it not functional. If you have interest and want to test I'll just leave it up to you to post results. Below are my final results.

1) I install Win 7 and Updates will fail after SP1 in installed.

2) If I take the same Win 7 install and install the initial Win 10 RTM install as an upgrade Updates still fails.

3) If I upgrade for free to the Anniversary issue of 10 all seems fine.

What am I supposed to think about this????

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:27 am 
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Could this be an original 32bit lappy. I don't know if this would make a difference.
My brothers old Win 7 laptop is 32bit and his wife still uses it. Light use only.
No SP1 installed

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:12 pm 
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Jay, it sounds like your Windows Update Client (previously called Windows Update Agent) hasn't updated, or SP1 is "updating" it to a version that's now broken.

I seem to recall I had a similar issue when I moved from XP to Win7 SP1 (fresh install) on my PC that I resolved by updating WUA to the then latest version of WUC.

Everything seems to be changing regarding standalone packages and the only standalone WUC package(s) I can find available from Microsoft Download Centre is dated March 2016 but it should be recent enough to get you up and running:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/3138612

Failing that the June 2016 'rollup' has the latest WUC from June included as part of the package (note that there is link to a July package available on the page but the details are scant and don't appear to be relevant to your immediate issue):
https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/3172605

HTH.


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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:27 pm 
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I forgot to add, I hope the alerts about needing to upgrade to Win10 are seen in Internet Explorer only, which at least could with a very open mind at least be seen as dodgy marketing practices... but if it's the OS alerting you, well imo that would be unforgivable and borderline fraud :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:04 pm 
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@ Chas: It is a 64 bit system.

@ Doddie: Actually there is no issue with the system now. As I was given permission to do as I pleased I just went ahead and upgraded to 10 after the second time Updates broke in 7. I had previously talked to the owner about upgrading to 10 and was told to do what I thought was best. In this case, considering my time, I felt that going to 10 was best. :mrgreen:

The alert that I was using an "out of date operating system." was when I launched the Service Pack 1 update for 7. It kind of raised my eyebrows a bit as I don't consider an OS out of date until end of life which isn't until 2020 for Windows 7.

I MAY mess with my Virtual Machine of Win 7 to see what happens. If I do I'll go with my MSDN install of 7 which is before SP1. If I do I'll post a shot of the screen about the OS being outdated. Yes I have a VM of Win 7. ;) I have a lot of VMs... 8.1, 7, Vista, XP, 2000 and 98 SE. I MAY even do one for Linux but am not sure. Linux just takes SO much maintenance and has so many more updates than Windows. Don't know if I want to mess for a 'toy'. Don't take me wrong! Linux is not a toy, just would be for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:59 pm 
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Here is the screen I get when starting to launch Windows 7 Service Pack 1. It is actually full screen but I cropped it down to just the area that had buttons and links.
Attachment:
Win 7 SP1 first screen.jpg
Win 7 SP1 first screen.jpg [ 55.04 KiB | Viewed 20099 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:19 pm 
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It is referring to Windows 7 Gold, prior to addition of SP1. I suspect the only supported version of Windows 7 is SP1. So what happens when you go ahead and update to SP1?

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:25 pm 
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MacDuffie wrote:
It is referring to Windows 7 Gold, prior to addition of SP1. I suspect the only supported version of Windows 7 is SP1. So what happens when you go ahead and update to SP1?

It downloads a ~15 MB file and refuses to install SP1. Same thing happens if I try to go from IE 8 to IE10. Both refuse to happen.

I'll keep playing and let you know what happens. Regardless of any issues all I have to do is delete the virtual drive I'm playing with and restore the copy I made of the original install.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasted system...
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:39 pm 
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Don't you have SP1 on disk? Does that work?

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