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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:34 pm 
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Doddie wrote:
I was forced/enticed to study electronics during my schooling years as part of my physics classes, most of what i was taught back then has long since been forgotten sadly. (e.g. a rudimentary example being going to the local electronics shop to buy circuit boards and transistors etc so i could rig up a basic intruder alarm with the sole aim of scaring the living daylights out of my sister, they've long since passed sadly! LOL)

LOL! Speaking of sisters... :mrgreen:

When I was about 10 years old I built a static generator. Basically it was a very wide rubber band on pulleys with a crank. When cranked the rubber band would rub against felt pads causing a static charge. This was linked to a plastic globe. I would crank the thing up and sneak up behind my older sister... Need I elaborate? :mrgreen: LOL! I could generate enough static to arc at least 18 inches.

Sigh, back to the new system I would expect the motherboard exchange to take ~2 weeks. Now I have to decide if I should just stay with my laptop during the interim or re-connect my previous motherboard. I would not actually mount the thing but I removed with the CPU cooler still mounted. Lay the case on its side with the board on top and all I need to do is reconnect the cables. I will probably do this at least to prove that nothing happened to my video card and/or power supply during the new build.

<edit>
Well that was pretty quick. I'm back to my old system but what a mess. :mrgreen: New motherboard is broken down except for pulling the CPU cooler mounts and replacing with the stock mounts.

At least I have proven that the power supply and video card are fine.

Here is the 'mess' aspect. I didn't mount the old board in the case; just used a piece of wood to avoid shorts on the bottom of the board and hooked things up.
Attachment:
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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:50 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
Here is the 'mess' aspect...

Blimey Jay! :shock:

Every time i look at that picture i see something new...

So far i see a penned in Teddy, what appears to be a trapped hedgehog (or is it a squashed womble?), the hand (or is it a foot?) of Big Foot (8 digits, who knew??), plus what appears to a large yellow nano-spider (just above what appears to be the empire state of cpu coolers lol) :lol:

I'm almost hesitant to mention the food you appear to have lying around... an uncooked raw tuna steak and some form of crusted naan bread... either you were incredibly hungry when you took the picture or you don't have a bin? :o

That said i do love the subliminal message you've cleverly placed... "Live, Dream, Laugh"... there's a bumper sticker in that! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:58 pm 
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There two more teddy bears; 'big foot' is a teddy. Also another hedge hog. And on a chair sits a pirate version of Eeyore. :mrgreen: The nano spider is actually a tag on the power cord for the CPU cooler. The 'tuna and bread' are accent lights made from blocks of salt. There is a third. :)

The rocks that say "Live, Dream, Laugh" are part of a set of 6. The others say "Love, Hope, Believe".

Ya, the cooler is fairly large but that is the case with 'tube coolers'. If you notice the 6 copper tube ends sticking out the top they increase heat transfer. They are really 3 'U' shaped tubes that go through the base of the cooler and up through the heatsink. I've been using tube coolers since the days of Vista when I got one and it dropped my CPU temperature ~35 degrees F over a normal cooler. Another thing that I like about tube coolers is the benefit to air flow. The black area behind the heatsink is a 120 MM fan. It never really made sense to me that a normal CPU cooler fan pointed toward the side of the case. This always seemed counter productive to air flow as it would have to cause turbulence in the air flow from front to back. Also, using 120 MM fans, they can run at a lower RPM making them VERY quiet.

There ARE some disadvantages to this type of cooler such as you will never be able to use one in a low profile case. Also, you cannot use one on a board that has the original 'clip on' cooler mounts epoxied on the board as these coolers need to be bolted on which means that you have to replace the stock mounts. And the heatsink fans tend to be thinner than those of a normal cooler. When I mounted the old cooler I ended up with two bleeding knuckles. LOL, this is why I now mount such a cooler before putting the board in the case. They take a lot of room which means that it is a bit more difficult to get to some other components on the board; another reason why I tend to build the board as much as possible before putting in the case.

Now... As to a cooler being large... This is a shot of the one for my new system. Keep in mind that the other cooler is on a micro ATX board. This is on a full sized board. This SHOULD end up being a really nice cooler. It even includes a second set of fan clips so that you can add another fan in the front of the cooler to work in a push/pull setup to increase the airflow through the heatsink. Also the fans should last longer as they use hydro dynamic bearings. Hydro dynamic means that when the fan is spinning it causes an oil flow that literally causes a situation where there is zero metal on metal contact. If you look close you may also notice that the fan blades are at different pitches. Some are designed for more air flow at lower RPMs and others are designed for higher RPMs. This cooler is made by MSI (think motherboards and video cards). They are just getting into coolers and, according to reviews, are doing it right. I have seen reports where this cooler, using the dual fan setup, is achieving lower temperatures than some liquid cooling setups.
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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:05 pm 
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I am impressed with the support system at ASRock. :) I finally filled out their "Return to Manufacturer Authorization (RMA)" form on their site and had the authorization within 5-10 minutes. This is only the second RMA I've had to do in probably 20 years so don't really have a base for good response time but would have to figure that 5-10 minutes is quite good. ;) If I read everything right there will not even be a repair attempt; they will just send me a new board.

Now I just have to pack it up and take to the post office.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:56 pm 
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WOW! LOL! I always say to make sure to, at least, glance through the 'terms and agreements' when downloading something. I am happy to say that I followed my own advice. :mrgreen:

I already have the motherboard back in its original packaging including ALL other included items... WRONG! ;)

After I printed the terms which I had to do as a signed copy is needed in my return I found the following:
ASRock wrote:
11. ONLY SHIP THE ITEM THAT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED without original box and any accessories or other components (excludes our technicians' request). ASRock America, Inc is not liable for any received.

I already had everything that I received packed back up in the original box. If I had not actually read the terms I may have lost 4 SATA 3 cables and other stuff.

Granted that this was an easy read as the terms are less than a page printed out. Still it backs up my advice of reading before doing... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:14 am 
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jaylach wrote:
...it backs up my advice of reading before doing... ;)


Read before doing? What? And miss the joy of doing it twice?

:-P

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:24 am 
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Yes always keep the accessories when doing a RMA. You will most likely get back a recertified board in a plain brown box.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:29 pm 
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sboots wrote:
jaylach wrote:
...it backs up my advice of reading before doing... ;)

Read before doing? What? And miss the joy of doing it twice?

:-P

I know, I know... Instructions are for the desperate. ;)
dvair wrote:
Yes always keep the accessories when doing a RMA. You will most likely get back a recertified board in a plain brown box.

Live and learn. ;) Personally I'm quite happy that I did not know that. Shows a lack of experience with the RMA process. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:51 pm 
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The RMA process varies, the biggest difference being if you're claiming under the warranty direct from the manufacturer or from a third party reseller.

For example:
Jay, i believe you bought the board from Newegg?, if you'd gone through the Newegg RMA process then you would have had to return everything because for them to return the item as faulty to ASRock Newegg need to return everything that was in the box, Newegg would also need to send you a new "package" as a replacement with all the accessories because they don't have the facilities to be splitting boxes if there are faulty components.

Direct from the manufacturer differs because they only need to send you a replacement board (or other faulty part) and will assume that everything else in the box is working.

That's a general rule of thumb, but yes, always check exactly what you have to return when returning anything... ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:15 pm 
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I bypassed Newegg and sent direct to ASRock. I figured that was the best option as I had already worked with their support as to troubleshooting.

I also took no chances on the return shipping and went with tracking, insured for the cost of the board and notification of delivery. To me that just made sense. My having to pay for the return shipping I consider wrong but that seems to be the way it is these days. May not have had to pay if I went through Newegg; really don't know. The only other RMA I've done was with Tiger Direct and they paid the return shipping but that was many years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:39 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
My having to pay for the return shipping I consider wrong but that seems to be the way it is these days.

One of the good things the EU forced on companies over here is that consumers should never be out of pocket if their goods are faulty, companies are now obligated to pay for the return of faulty goods bought online.

I've always been surprised that the US, apparently customer focused, has never adopted the same practice. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:37 pm 
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That is the way it should be Doddie. Shoot, there are cases here where, if you return something, you will get charged a 10% re-stocking fee. That means, say you buy a $1000.00 HDTV and return, you will only get $900.00 back as they claim $100.00 for putting the stupid thing back on the shelf. Personally I have never experienced this as the company must disclose this fact. If it is there I will not buy unless I am positive that I will not want to change my mind about the purchase. This is also not a case where the product is faulty; it is a case where you just decide that you don't want the thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Another thing with returns is that in some cases if you got a refund it didn't include the postage you paid to get the item. :-(

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:39 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
This is also not a case where the product is faulty; it is a case where you just decide that you don't want the thing.

We have that covered as well with the "Consumer Contracts Regulations", a minimum 14 day cooling-off period has to be given (from date of delivery) for almost everything bought online, some exceptions are CD/DVD's and software etc, though if a CD etc is faulty and won't play then the 'faulty goods rights' would apply.

In layman's terms, this article by a well respected UK magazine covers the basics pretty well:
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/ ... egulations

In many cases the "big online" players go way beyond the 14 days, Amazon UK for instance offer 30 days and will pay for the return postage as well, certain caveats and exclusions apply but my experience has been that no matter the reason for returning, the cost of the goods and any postage costs as long as they are "Despatched from and sold by Amazon" are refunded in full.
c.f:
About Our Returns Policies:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/custom ... d=1161002#
(seems to be an awfully long URL, i hope it works.)


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:42 pm 
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I think that is how the "As Seen On TV" type of products make their money in many cases Joan. A lot of the stuff is total junk but they charge enough in shipping to still make money even if you do a return.

The 'long' link works fine Doddie. I'll read later.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:52 pm 
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JoanA wrote:
Another thing with returns is that in some cases if you got a refund it didn't include the postage you paid to get the item. :-(

They should now Joan, at least the basic cost... not sure if that means 2nd class or parcel post, there are so many options now! lol ;)

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Refunding the cost of delivery

The trader has to refund the basic delivery cost of getting the goods to you in the first place, so if you opted for enhanced service eg guaranteed next day, it only has to refund the basic cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:02 pm 
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Another factor in sales/purchases is rebates. So why do companies offer rebates instead of just lowering the initial price. I don't know how it is in the EU but there are two very good reasons in the US.

1) A large percentage of consumers will either not bother to do the rebate or will fail to do it correctly. This, of course, means that the company does not have to give back the rebate.

2) This is the more important reason. It is all about tax breaks. If they just lower the initial price they pay tax on that full amount. If they do a rebate it counts as ... I don't know if it is actually the right term but it acts as a loss of revenue and they get a tax break. In this case they actually gain income as they are not paying taxes for the full amount of the product's purchase price.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:56 pm 
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Back to the build aspects... :mrgreen:

I just ordered a second fan for the 'monster CPU cooler'. I probably don't really NEED the second fan but at $13.99 USD and free shipping why not? As I think that I've made obvious I'm a freak about wanting good cooling. ;) The following quote from a review was the final selling point for me. LOL! Combined with the 120 MM intake fan in the front of my case and the same as an exhaust in the back along with the power supply fan serving as an exhaust I could probably use the setup to cool my apartment. Heck, just the 2 CPU cooler fans are able to move 71 CFM of air each. With free three day shipping through Newegg.com I'm sure that I will receive the fan before the replacement motherboard.

Newegg.com review wrote:
Dropped my temp by around 15c compared to my old liquid cooler.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:51 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
Another factor in sales/purchases is rebates. So why do companies offer rebates instead of just lowering the initial price. I don't know how it is in the EU but there are two very good reasons in the US.
I'm not sure i know what you mean by "rebate"?... i don't EVER recall having heard that term used in connection with buying or selling anything this side of the pond?

If it's similar to what we would call a "discount code/voucher", that is, it can only be used to buy something else from the same retailer then for the reasons you gave, that's not permitted.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:58 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
Back to the build aspects... :mrgreen:

...Combined with the 120 MM intake fan in the front of my case and the same as an exhaust in the back along with the power supply fan serving as an exhaust I could probably use the setup to cool my apartment...

I don't know how warm your apartment normally is but i do know that over here in Scotland if i was to rely on my PC to cool my flat then it'd be way hotter than I'm used to, or want it to be! lol


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:33 pm 
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Doddie in the US a rebate is where you pay a certain amount for an item then fill out a form and get some of the money back. For instance my motherboard costs $199.99 with a $10.00 mail in rebate. I pay the $199.99 and go through the hoops and they send me a check for $10.00 making my final price $189.99. Personally I think that it is a stupid system.

LOL! I wasn't exactly serious about cooling my apartment but I DO get unusual operating temperatures. At idle my CPU only runs at about 10 degrees F over ambient.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:49 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
Doddie in the US a rebate is where you pay a certain amount for an item then fill out a form and get some of the money back. For instance my motherboard costs $199.99 with a $10.00 mail in rebate. I pay the $199.99 and go through the hoops and they send me a check for $10.00 making my final price $189.99. Personally I think that it is a stupid system.

I see, over here we'd call that "cashback".

There's a whole online industry aimed at offering cashback deals in the UK, I've never really trusted them as sometimes the deals seem too good to be true but i have on occasion used them... from what I've heard trying to actually get your "cash back" can be a minefield if things go wrong.
There are many people who swear by them though, and use them religiously.
cf. http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shoppi ... k-websites

Some of the banks and insurance companies do offer seemingly ridiculous "incentives/cashback deals" to gain your custom direct from their own websites...
e.g. One that's been doing the rounds now for a while and comes and goes is the banks, open a current account online with <enter name> bank and we'll give you £100 after 3 months. Once you have the £100 you can close the account and they can't take the money back (that amount varies and often includes interest free overdrafts etc, just depends on the bank and what they want to offer at that given time) :)

Another example, a few years ago now but a high street chain of insurance brokers offered me fully comprehensive insurance cover for my motorcycle, £98/year but if i paid monthly they would give me £100 cashback if i didn't cancel or make a claim within 3 months (as paying monthly was a credit agreement, this meant the total cost of the policy was £125), the cheapest quote i'd found anywhere online or by phoning the companies that don't list on price comparison websites was the £98 they'd quoted me, it was a no-brainer to sign up to the monthly contract and accept their £100 cashback. Cost of the policy was therefore only £27!

I'll try to stop going off-topic now ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:16 pm 
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No problem here with off topic in this thread. Shoot, can't really get back on topic until I get back the mobo. BTW, the mobo is on the truck for delivery to ASRock today, Monday. Not bad since I just mailed it Friday.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Not bad at all as to ASRock RMA support! :) I sent the mobo back on July 28th. Just got notified that the replacement is on the way via FedEx on August 1st. I would call that a pretty good turn-a-round. :) Who knows... I MAY even have it by the end of the week. They use FedEx Ground but I'm in Sheridan Wyoming and it only has to come from Chino California. Chino is ~40 miles due east of Los Angeles. About 1200 miles from there to here. Shoot, I used to do that in 16 hours when I lived in Ft. Worth Texas and would take road trips on my motorcycle to Cottonwood Arizona. :mrgreen:

<edit>
FedEx tracking just became active. Delivery is set for August 4th. Sent back last Friday; get back this Friday. Yes, I AM pleased with the turn-a-round. :)

Second CPU cooler fan is scheduled for delivery on Thursday August 3rd. Looks like good timing. ;)

<second edit>
One thing makes me wonder about what I'm getting back. From info supplied by other members in this thread I would expect just a plain box with just a proven mobo included. However the FedEx tracking shows a shipping weight of 3 lbs.. I just cannot see the board weighing that much even with packaging. Mayhaps it does actually weigh that much but I have to wonder if I'm getting just the board or a complete retail package. What makes me wonder is that Newegg.com showed the same 3 lbs. for the initial shipping weight of the retail box. To be honest I don't care which I get as long as it works but it would be nice if I ended up another 4 SATA 3 cables. ;) Of course this addition means nothing other than I am hyper... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:42 am 
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jaylach wrote:
Not bad at all as to ASRock RMA support! :) I sent the mobo back on July 28th. Just got notified that the replacement is on the way via FedEx on August 1st. I would call that a pretty good turn-a-round. :) Who knows... I MAY even have it by the end of the week. They use FedEx Ground but I'm in Sheridan Wyoming and it only has to come from Chino California. Chino is ~40 miles due east of Los Angeles. About 1200 miles from there to here. Shoot, I used to do that in 16 hours when I lived in Ft. Worth Texas and would take road trips on my motorcycle to Cottonwood Arizona. :mrgreen:

<edit>
FedEx tracking just became active. Delivery is set for August 4th. Sent back last Friday; get back this Friday. Yes, I AM pleased with the turn-a-round. :)

Second CPU cooler fan is scheduled for delivery on Thursday August 3rd. Looks like good timing. ;)

<second edit>
One thing makes me wonder about what I'm getting back. From info supplied by other members in this thread I would expect just a plain box with just a proven mobo included. However the FedEx tracking shows a shipping weight of 3 lbs.. I just cannot see the board weighing that much even with packaging. Mayhaps it does actually weigh that much but I have to wonder if I'm getting just the board or a complete retail package. What makes me wonder is that Newegg.com showed the same 3 lbs. for the initial shipping weight of the retail box. To be honest I don't care which I get as long as it works but it would be nice if I ended up another 4 SATA 3 cables. ;) Of course this addition means nothing other than I am hyper... :mrgreen:

That is a good turn around Jay, I found this with my Asus Notebook. When it failed in guarantee I went through their support and the machine was picked up by DPD on the Monday placed in a secure box and taken, got the email a couple of days later and the machine was returned on the Friday back in the secure box by the same driver and the main board had been replaced everything tested out and it was returned with everything as it was and I could carry on as if there hadn't been any interruption, I was very impressed. :)

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