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 Post subject: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:42 am 
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I'm posting this in 'Advanced' as it deals with building a system.

I'm not sure yet but MAY be doing a re-build of my main system. No real issue with my current system except that it is lacking as to hard drive and USB performance. My system drive is an SSD but the current mother board only supports SATA 2. Also only 2 of my USB ports are 3.0.

I'm thinking about dropping $800.00 - $900.00 on a new "super build". From my point of view this would be a total beast of a system but would love to hear input as to if anything looks wrong.

Hardware that would be carried over from my current system:
1) 240 GB SSD drive along with an additional 5 TB of spin drives.
2) Mouse and keyboard:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 4RE3NT6772
3) Power supply:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6817371050
4) Video card (pretty strong on this... it's a beast.)
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6814202166
5) Audio output system; Yamaha SRT 1000:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6886971019

The above is currently driving two HDTV's as monitors. 1 - 42 inch and 1 - 32 inch.

New components:
1) Mother board (looks like a beast)
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6813132963
2) CPU; 8-core at 3.6 GHz. normal with a peak of 4.0 GHz..
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6819113430
3) RAM... this looks like a decent deal but may switch to Crucial.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6820233867

Can anyone see anything wrong with my choices? Pretty much looks like a 'super system' to me especially if I add a second video card in a 'cross fire' array.

Can anyone see anything wrong with my initial choices as to mother board, CPU and RAM?

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:21 pm 
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Sorry I can't help Jay, it's over my head as I've never built my own but I'm sure if you say it's a beast it probably is but I expect Patty, Stephen or Dave etc. will be the ones to tell you if you're right. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:45 am 
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Holy cow Jay, that sounds like a monster system. Wish I had the know-how (and patience) to do that kind of stuff.
Acadia

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Building a system really isn't difficult. In fact it is not likely that I'll even have to re-install Windows; just fire it up and install the new mother board drivers.

<edit>
As to the above I suspect that I will have to re-activate Windows due to hardware changes but don't expect any issues.

So why not an Intel I7 8-core processor? First is the ~$500.00 difference in price. Second is that the AMD Ryzen supports DDR4 memory instead of being held back to the Intel DDR3. DDR4 gives a stable memory clock speed of 3200MHz..

Just got done cashing some things in from work and, if I did everything right, should get a check for ~$8500.00 in a week or so. I really think that I'm going to do the build.

I may change my mind on the mother board due to one consideration. The CPU cooler back plate is epoxied to the board so cannot be removed. If you remember another thread I have an extreme cooler but it needs to have the back plate replaced with its own. Simple process but can't be done if you can't remove the original plate. This is not a deal breaker but will look at a few other boards.

LOL! A couple of reviews I've seen on the combo of the CPU and mother board is that it is hard to get to the BIOS. The issue is that it is so fast that it is past the option to enter the BIOS and loading Windows before you get the key pressed. I think that I can figure this out... ;)

Other negative reviews mention the software that handles over clocking is buggy. Since I don't over clock I don't see an issue.

One review has me a bit confused as it complained about only having 1 USB2 port and the user needed 4 for the system's liquid cooling. From the following image I see 4 USB2 ports on the back and there are also internal USB2 headers (connections) on the mother board.
Attachment:
USB setup.jpg
USB setup.jpg [ 78.23 KiB | Viewed 486 times ]


Anyway... I have a bit more research to do but know that I will go with the selected CPU. Memory and mother board MAY change. Sigh, I actually REALLY enjoy doing a fresh build! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:25 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
Building a system really isn't difficult. ... just fire it up and install the new mother board drivers.

:silly3: OK, if you say so. :dunno:
Acadia

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Acadia wrote:
jaylach wrote:
Building a system really isn't difficult. ... just fire it up and install the new mother board drivers.

:silly3: OK, if you say so. :dunno:
Acadia

In case you didn't see, I added a LOT to my previous post.

It really isn't hard Acadia. Have you ever built a plastic model? Computers are easier for the most part. You mount the mother board in the case with screws. Plug in the cards such as video, memory and connect the hard drives. Then just connect the wires. Even connecting the wires is easy as almost all have different types of connectors so it is impossible to make a mistake. The exception is the connections for the front panel of the system. Even that is not hard as the connections are usually labeled on the mother board and case and all in one group. For instance take the case's power button... If the case is decent the proper conection will be labeled 'pwr'; the same will be the case for the proper connection on the mother board.

The only tricky part is if you need to apply thermal compound for the CPU cooler. Even that only takes a bit of care and, with most decent current coolers, is already applied.

Granted that I've had plenty of practice but I can put together a system in well under 2 hours. Of course that does not include if I have to install Windows and software but you are well versed in that aspect and the only issue is time. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:31 pm 
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You make it sound so easy, but I think I'll pass, adding another stick of memory to this laptop was as far as I'm going inside a computer. :-D

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:43 pm 
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I'm not really trying to get anyone to build their own system Joan as that is something that is up to each individual. I just believe that some people are turned off to the idea as they think it is something really hard and/or complicated when it really is not. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Phew! Looks like I just went from 5.24 TB total intenal drive space to 7.24 TB. :) I won't finalize until I do the new build but, so far, looks good. I've had the 2 TB drive for ages but have never been able to get it working. I seemed to mess it up by removing from an external enclosure.

There IS an advantage with this increase... My current drive setup is as follows:
240 GB SSD as system
1 TB drive partitioned in half for data and internal scheduled system images.
4 TB drive for movies.

The new setup after the new build will be as follows:
240 GB SSD as system
1 TB drive dedicated just for data
2 TB drive dedicated for internal system images
4 TB drive for movies

The advantage will be that I will be able to add the 1 TB data drive to my daily scheduled Acronis system images. I will leave my Windows image backup as to just the system drive. Since my current data partition is ~280 GB the 2 TB drive will handle this without issue. Of course I still need to finish proofing the 2 TB drive which is in the process of copying my current data partition. This will take a while as I have many apps installed on the data partition.

Once the copy of the data partition is done I will change drive letters to make the 2 TB drive the current data drive. If everything still works I will be in like Flint. ;)

So why did I have so much trouble getting this 2 TB drive working when it was pretty much new when I got the thing? It would seem that it was initially setup as an odd form of GPT. Disk Management in Windows would see the thing but all manipulation options were greyed out. At least 6 months ago I set the thing under my couch. Tonight I got it back out. Using EaseUS Partition Master Pro I was able to get it working. Neither primary nor logical drive setup would work. Then I decided to take the plunge and set the drive to be active and all was well.

Does anyone actually happen to know exactly what 'GPT Protected drive' means?

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:12 am 
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LOL! Already changed my choice of mother boards. Looks like I'm going with ASRock. ASRock used to be a division of Asus but split off. I've used ASRock before and loved.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6813157757
I based my decision a lot on customer reviews.
The initial Asus board only got 5 stars in 41% of reviews (not good!).
A comparible Gigibyte board got 5 stars in 54% of reviews.
The ASRock board got 5 stars in 74% of reviews (Pretty decent!).

The ASRock board will also save me ~$65.00 over the cost of the Asus board and includes dual channel WiFi on the board. Does not have all the pretty lights that are on the Asus board but, as the system is in a recess, lights are pretty useless to me even though the case has a window.

The ASRock also has more expansion slots adding 1 PCIe 2.0 x16 and 2 PCIe 2.0 x1 slots to go along with the main 2 PCIe 3.0 x16 slots.

The ASRock board just seems to be a better value with the same abilities and then some. While the cost savings are nice the major factor was the customer reviews.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 6:16 am 
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Sorry but another update... I would not bother but a couple of people have privately told me that they are following this and find it of interest.

I've changed my mind about trying to use the cooler in my current system for a couple of reasons. This is the current product of choice.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6835846001

1) I like the fact that the cooler I have selected throws the exhaust air to the back of the case instead of the side.

2) I believe that there are no mother board mounting screws on the current system that would interfere with just removing intact including leaving the cooler attached. It would be easy to drop the intact system in a new case. I also have a pretty decent 1 or 2 GB (can't remember which) video card to throw in. I figure that I can get a good case and 1-2 TB hard drive easily under $200.00. The system would probably rate as lower middle as gaming and danged strong for media and production usage. I figure that I could sell the thing easily for a minimum of $500.00. This would drop the cost of my new build by $300.00. :mrgreen:

<edit>
Oh shoot! In the above I did not consider that I'll need a power supply and DVD burner to complete the rebuild of the old system to sell. Still I can easily see a minimum of clearing $200.00. :)

<second edit>
Whew! I just spent a lot of time researching the ASRock board and seem to have made the right choice. :) General opinion seems to be that it is the best board available for the AMD Ryzen 8-core CPU.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:19 pm 
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:rofl2: I will let a small private company build my next system. Yes, it will cost more, but I know it will work and tech support will be there within minutes. My past three systems thru three small companies. 1. Tastycomputers, Russell, where are you? Out of business, that hurt. 2.UberClok, I believe built by 5 disabled veterans. Out of business, that hurt too.

But my next build, coming soon, by PugetSystems. This current desktop, now almost 5-years old, by Puget and just as wonderful by the first two companies.

Jay, if I only had your knowledge AND EXPERIENCE, and faith in oneself, but I would still prefer Russell. :smash1:

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:35 pm 
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I undrstand, Acadia, and there is nothing wrong with that. :) I also understand about the tech support aspect as your pre-built system is fully covered by one source. In my case I would have to deal with each component vendor. This is one of the reasons that I do a LOT of research on components and look at a lot of reviews. I don't pay a lot of attention to positive reviews but DO pay attention to the negatives. It is the negatives that tell me if a component is durable. Is it my research or luck that accounts for the fact that I've never had to deal with vendor support? I don't know but it probabably boils down to a bit of both. ;)

A big factor with me is that I just plain enjoy doing builds. :mrgreen: Actually the only complete desktop system I've ever bought was way back in the days of Windows 3.1. Everything else I have built except for my laptop.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:26 am 
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jaylach wrote:
...
A big factor with me is that I just plain enjoy doing builds....

I can definitely understand the appeal. As a kid I always enjoyed building things with my Erector Set and even Tinker Toys. But they were cheap and my parents paid for them! :laugh3:

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:38 pm 
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Acadia wrote:
jaylach wrote:
...
A big factor with me is that I just plain enjoy doing builds....

I can definitely understand the appeal. As a kid I always enjoyed building things with my Erector Set and even Tinker Toys. But they were cheap and my parents paid for them! :laugh3:

Acadia

:rofl2: As I have been told the only difference between men and boys is the price of the toys. :mrgreen:

Speaking of the price of toys... I just added another item to my build which will be my boot drive. It has a read speed of 3200 Mb/sec while my current 240 GB SSD has a read speed of 550 Mb/sec. It is a SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 500GB NVMe PCI-Express 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive. While this IS an SSD it does not connect to a SATA port. It will connect to one of the 2 M.2 ports on the new mother board. LOL! It looks like a 'naked' flash drive and plugs directly into the mother board without cables (I'll throw up an image at the end of this.). If I'm understanding correctly the M.2 ports are like an extension of PCIe.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 12K54C9642

My current 240 GB SSD will become my 'working drive' for video encoding. This will DRASTICALLY reduce the time of such encoding.

Sigh, what can I say? I've talked for YEARS about buiulding my 'super system'... I currently have the oppertunity and more than enough extra funds to do this. :rofl2: Just thought that I would guess that this is a check mark on my "Bucket List". :mrgreen:

Attachment:
samsung drive.jpg
samsung drive.jpg [ 86.22 KiB | Viewed 400 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Jay, the computer I purchased last year from Velocity Micro has a similar (but now older) SSD. Specifically, it is a 512 GB Samsung 950 Pros PCIe with read speeds up to 2500 MBps and write speeds up to 1500 MBps. I have been very pleased with it.

Looks like you are having fun, and that's what retirement is all about. Happy for you.......


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Sigh, there is always a down side to a build...

Everything is ordered but now I have to wait. :( That is the down side, having to wait for the stuff. LOL! I'm not good at waiting. ;)

At least I ordered on the right day. Newegg had a promo going for 1 free year of Premium Service for veterans on the 4th of July. It includes free 3 day shipping. Since everything is estimated to be shipped on the 5th I should have everything by Friday the 7th or Saturday the 8th... Dang, that 3 day shipping is probably business days so I don't know if Saturday is viable.

Now to start another build or I should say a re-build. :mrgreen: There is absolutely nothing wrong with my current system except that it is an older SATA 2 mother board. I see no reason not to throw it in another case. All I need is the case, power supply and a drive. If nothing else I can sell the thing. Except for the video card it would be the same as I'm currently running. As to video I still have the 1 GB Radeon HD 5450 that I replaced with my Radeon R9 380 Series 4 GB card. It will still be an excellent media system that can do a decent job on games.

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Been 2 weeks tomorrow since the components showed up and I figured that I should update. The system is dead... :cry:

Such things happen now and then. Actually this should all be resolved but I have not messed with it much. Shoot, after first assembling on July 10th I didn't touch it again until last night, July 22nd.

I believe that the motherboard is bad and am in contact with their support. The reason that I think the motherboard is bad is that I followed their initial suggestions and all failed. The issue is that the system appears to get power as blue LED lights on the board light up and pulse but no fans will spin. After following the initial troubleshooting I got a hunch and plugged the fans into different ports. Now the CPU and chassis fans power up and keep running without issue but still no video and the fans on the video card do not spin regardless of which of the three PCIe 16X slots I use. Also only half of the CPU and chassis fan sockets will keep the fans running. This tells me that not all of the board is getting power.

Some may say that this is why you should buy a system instead of doing a build but I would not agree in my case. I mean everything is under warranty and the issue will be resolved. To be honest this is only the second time I've ever had a build fail for both myself and clients and, to understate, I HAVE built a few systems. ;) Shoot, you can buy a complete system and have it not work... I will say that I like ASRock support. I didn't actually time it but I had an email response within 90 minutes of my issue submit with the initial troubleshooting instructions. I have not gotten a response yet as to the results I sent yesterday but should early Monday. They are a Monday-Friday company.

Really not a big issue as to my operation as I just connected my laptop to my 42 inch HDTV. Attached my 4 TB external movie backup drive to the laptop and I'm running per normal except for not having my second monitor.

I shall update as updates happen. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:10 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
After following the initial troubleshooting I got a hunch...

Talking of hunches, don't rule out the power connectors (pins) from your PSU to the motherboard... i don't which had the issue, but on my last motherboard (an ASRock) there was a pin that didn't connect tightly from the (Tesla) PSU which rendered the PC dead until i 'wiggled' the wiring on the 4 pin ATX connector, after i did that the PC would boot as expected, until i had to move it again.

I had hoped that my recent 'upgrade' would've sorted that out but with a new Gigabyte motherboard and an Aerocool PSU, if anything it's even worse... because of the location of my tower whenever i want to do anything to the internals it requires removing all the cables from the rear and physically manoeuvring the tower into a position so i can access it, this invariably means that the internal cabling will get disturbed.

I've yet to see this "new" configuration boot up after moving the tower, i have to remove the 24 pin ATX connector and plug it back in again every time just to get it to power anything... it's so strange that I'm not entirely convinced there's even a problem with the pin connectors, it may possibly even be some of the inbuilt "protection" that comes as standard on the motherboard and they're locking the motherboard down until all power is discharged?... Power Failure Protection Anti-Surge IC etc... whatever that's meant to mean i have no idea!

Sadly i have neither the tools nor the knowledge to track down what's caused these problems but wiggling wires and re-seating connectors does give me at least a hunch that in the pursuit of profit build quality has perhaps suffered.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:39 pm 
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If it is a power supply issue I would have to think it is the plugs on the board as I carried my 900 watt Antec PS over from my old system and never had a previous issue.

Your ASRock and Gigabyte boards only use 1 4 pin CPU power connector? Both my new ASRock and previous Gigabyte take two. BTW, the 24 pin connection powers the board and the 4/8 pin connections seem to be specifically for the CPU.
Attachment:
cpu connection.jpg
cpu connection.jpg [ 182.99 KiB | Viewed 311 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:06 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
If it is a power supply issue I would have to think it is the plugs on the board as I carried my 900 watt Antec PS over from my old system and never had a previous issue.

I'm not saying it is the PSU, just don't rule out the connection as being the possible cause

Quote:
Your ASRock and Gigabyte boards only use 1 4 pin CPU power connector? Both my new ASRock and previous Gigabyte take two. BTW, the 24 pin connection powers the board and the 4/8 pin connections seem to be specifically for the CPU.

Sadly yes, I'm always about 3 years behind everyone else :( ... not by choice, it's the way my finances dictate ;)

1 x 24-pin ATX main power connector
1 x 4-pin ATX 12V power connector
Source:
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA ... -rev-2x#sp

That said, my logic would dictate no matter how the motherboard draws power, it remains that if there's enough power on a circuit to run some things and not others, some will appear to work and others not... unless there's not enough power to run anything in which case, it's dead.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:39 pm 
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Actually I think that it is involved with power distribution also but on the board, not the PS. Apparently ASRock agrees as I just got an email telling me how to go about the RMA process.

I was concerned the first time I plugged in the board as, even before hitting the case power button, the blue LED lights on the board pulsed. It just did not seem right that they should even be on let alone pulse. Also the 2 digit LCD diagnostics display has never come on.

I'll return it for a replacement and go from there. ;) LOL! This is what sometimes happens when you are dealing with components that were not even available ~5 months ago. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:51 pm 
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jaylach wrote:
...This is what sometimes happens when you are dealing with components that were not even available ~5 months ago. ;)
I thank you for beta testing what should be a very reliable board in 30 months time... please maintain support for Windows 7 drivers until then also :lol: :rofl2:


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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:36 pm 
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LOL! I'm sure that Win 7 drivers will be available for a while. ;) ASRock is great for backward compatibility. In fact this board even has a PCIe 16 ver. 2.x slot along with the 2 PCIe 16 3.x slots for older video cards. I remember the first ASRock board that I used. It was way back when they were still a division of Asus and the days of Windows XP/Vista. PCIe was just coming out and I was upgrading my system. I could afford a board, CPU and RAM but not a new video card. The card I had happened to be a decent AGP slot unit. ASRock was the only board maker that had both AGP and PCIe slots. LOL! After I eventually bought a PCIe card I ended up using both driving 4 monitors. :mrgreen:

BTW, how much do you know about electronics? Do you know what a power choke is on a motherboard? Looking at it, it almost looks like a transformer and, if that is the case, may be the issue. Could possibly be a bad rail. I DO know that it is a voltage regulator and that each of the 16 phases are separate circuits dealing with different areas of the board. However that does not mean that each phase is like a rail on a transformer such as a power supply. I guess what I'm really asking is if a fault in the power choke could cause the issues I see.

Here is what it looks like and the description on the board diagram.
Description:
"15.Digi Power (IR Digital PWM) 16 Power Phase Design Premium 60A Power Choke Dual-Stack MOSFET (DSM)"

Attachment:
power choke.PNG
power choke.PNG [ 74.05 KiB | Viewed 305 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Possible new system
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:59 pm 
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Posts: 326
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland.
jaylach wrote:
BTW, how much do you know about electronics?

In reality, nothing.
In layman's terms, nothing.
In my head, still nothing.

I was forced/enticed to study electronics during my schooling years as part of my physics classes, most of what i was taught back then has long since been forgotten sadly. (e.g. a rudimentary example being going to the local electronics shop to buy circuit boards and transistors etc so i could rig up a basic intruder alarm with the sole aim of scaring the living daylights out of my sister, they've long since passed sadly! LOL)

Quote:
I guess what I'm really asking is if a fault in the power choke could cause the issues I see.

I have no idea but i bet mankind (men) will be asking that same question for millennia to come! :rofl2:


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